Change to bathroom electrics

[Mungo55]

Hi there,

Im going to get a bathroom refurbished by a bathroom fitter / plumber and need to have some changes done to the lighting. At the moment there’s one large central overhead light and a bathroom mirror with a light.

Im planning to change that to 4 overhead spots, and put a new mirror in which hopefully can use the same electrical supply as the existing mirror.

The fitter, in part of his quote, has an item ‘Cut holes and run cables in the ceiling for spot lights then overboard in preparation for plastering’.

Having looked into this a bit it seems he’s not registered to sign off changes to bathroom electrics. Fair enough, he’s a plumber / bathroom fitter.

So my questions are :

1/ Do I need a part P registered electrician to fit the lights (including running the cables) so that he can sign off his own work ?

2/ If the bathroom fitter puts the lights in, can an electrician be brought in to inspect and certify it to the same level as if an electrician did it from the start ? Initial research suggests this isnt that straightforward.

The main aim is to not run into issues with the work in a few years time if I sell the flat. I want whatever certification is necessary.

Hoping you electrical guys out there can help !


Thanks

Mungo

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Have you thought about whether needing 4 times as many lights as before might indicate that the new lights aren't actually very good at lighting up rooms?

If you have a bath, have you thought about what it will be like lying in it looking up into spotlight beams?

What's above the bathroom? If it's a loft then work will be needed up there to make and/or install sealed enclosures over the lights, re-instate the insulation etc. If it's a flat roof then basically installing recessed lights is a non-starter. You may not simply cut holes in a bathroom ceiling as you may with, say, a living room.

1/ Possibly, depends on whether any of the electrical work will be within a bathroom zone. But an electrician would probably be a good idea anyway, as it doesn't sound as if this guy is even an unregistered one, so he wouldn't be able to give you an installation certificate. Do they say anything in their brochure/website/adverts about electrical work?

2/ No.

Part P, BTW, is a Building Regulation, nothing to do with being registered, and all electrical work whether done by registered electricians, unregistered electricians, bathroom fitters or DIYers has to comply with it, no matter where in the house it is done.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Everyone who does electrics must work to Part P, which states:

What you are talking about is notification to the Local Authority of work in Bathrooms, etc.

This only applies in your case if there is "a new circuit" - anywhere - and/or "any addition or alteration to existing circuits in a special location"; special location means within the zones of a bathroom.
https://www.diynot.com/wiki/Electrics:bathroom_zones

 

[securespark]

Are the alterations outside the zones?
In which case, he can do the work without needing notification. Whether he is qualified to do the work I can't say.

 

[Mungo55]

Thanks a lot for the replies. Ive learnt some things there, in particular about Part P and bathroom zones.

The ceiling of the bathroom is 2.7m high. There would be a bath in there and a wall mounted overhead shower with the head sticking out about .5 m below ceiling height. Given the diagram of the bathroom zones shows the zone finishing at 2.25m above the floor would I be right in thinking that any change to ceiling lights wouldnt need notifying as they’d be outside the zones ?

I told the fitter today that I would use an electrician to do the wiring and fit the lights.

 

[JohnW2]

Given the diagram of the bathroom zones shows the zone finishing at 2.25m above the floor would I be right in thinking that any change to ceiling lights wouldnt need notifying as they’d be outside the zones ?

That is correct, provided you are in England.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Same in Wales - the definition of "special location" has always been "within the zones".

 

[JohnW2]

Zones are, indeed, the same in England and Wales. Although it is very probably the case, I would probably ask for confirmation that the entirety of what the OP wants to do comes within the cope of "adding light fittings and switches to an existing circuit" before being certain that the work would not be notifiable in Wales - since, if by any chance that wasn't the case, the work might be notifiable in Wales.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Actually, I think that in Wales they might still use the old definition of "special location", which is simply "Locations containing a bath tub or shower basin".

And I think they may still get agitated about "Extra-low voltage lighting installations, other than pre-assembled, CE-marked lighting sets".


I guess electricity is still all a bit new to them. Bathrooms too, perhaps.

 

[JohnW2]

Wales still uses the same notification rules that applied to both England and Wales prior to April 2013, which say ...

“special location” means a location within the limits of the relevant zones specified for a bath, a shower,a swimming or paddling pool or a hot air sauna in the Wiring Regulations, sixteenth edition, published by the Institution of Electrical Engineers and the British Standards Institution as BS 7671: 2001 and incorporating amendments 1 and 2. "

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Main changes in the 2013 edition

This approved document supports Part P: Electrical safety – Dwellings. It takes effect on
6 April 2013 and is for use in England*. The 2006 edition will continue to apply to work begun
before 6 April 2013, or to work subject to a building notice, full plans application or initial notice
submitted before 6 April 2013.


AFAICT, this is what was in the 2006 edition:

 

[EFLImpudence]

Schedule 4 - Still applicable in Wales.

Why are you quoting ADP?
Isn't that the definition from BS7671 which is different than The Building Regulations.

Wales did not change in 2013.

 

[FrodoOne]

Have you thought about whether needing 4 times as many lights as before might indicate that the new lights aren't actually very good at lighting up rooms?

If you have a bath, have you thought about what it will be like lying in it looking up into spotlight beams?

BAS, I completely endorse all of your comments.
The use of a multiplicity of small ineffective (previously high Wattage) lighting units has been a complete anathema to me for MANY years.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Why are you quoting ADP?

1) It's on my PC and thus easier to access than the actual legislation which applies in Wales.
2) I did assume () that on matters of fact it was correct.

 

[JohnW2]

Schedule 4 (which still applies in Wales, and which I quoted in my previous post) is still present in our wiki - so not too hard "to access".