Chimneybreast removed, gappy brickwork

[dodgem]

Help!!!

My sister bought this flat, which I'm helping do up to save costs.

We just found hidden behind a false plasterboard wall the remains of a fireplace.

See photo attached!

The fireplace was just knocked out without any repair work and so most of the bricks have no mortar.

In fact I can see through to nextdoors plasterboard wall.

I need to repair this wall asap and fill up the gaps so I can apply an easy render finish, to get it ready for my plasterer.

I was going to patch up the gaps with slate slips and brick.

Question I have are:

- what type of mortar should I use for the new brick and slate?

- what type of mortar / cement bonding should I use to throw at the gaps between the existing bricks?

- what type of render should I use to coat it all?? And how long do I have to wait after I mortared the bricks?

Thanks!!

 

[bobasd]

stand back and, after removing all the clutter, take a context photo of the wall.
then take close-ups of floor/wall and wall/ceiling junctions please?

you appear to be on the ground floor - whats happening to the chimney breast if it goes into upper floors?
is there a chimney stack shared by you and your neighbour?
are there any other chimney breasts in your flat?

have you discussed this with your neighbour?
do you know if the neighbour's chimney breast is complete all the way up to any shared chimney stack?

can you post your pics in the usual DIYNOT way - advice is available ? the pic above wont open up.

 

[Alastairreid]

4-1 s+c to make good brickwork.
Bonding plaster to block out in increments to bring flush.
Has the breast been removed all the way up or has it been supported?

 

[bobasd]

never use bonding plaster to attempt to make good to soot impregnated brickwork, it will allow salts to surface on your decorated surfaces within a short time.

when doing this kind of remedial work always use a 3:1 sand and lime mix for bricklaying, dubbing out & rendering.

if you respond to my first post i will safely take you further with your project.

i mention safety because there are quite obviously a number of safety issues in your job that those unskilled in this kind of building work do not understand.

 

[Alastairreid]

The contaminated brickwork will be infilled with new brick, s+c is perfectly acceptable in this instance.
Keep up ree.

 

[bernardgreen]

In fact I can see through to nextdoors plasterboard wall.

That is clear indication that a serious problem exists with that chimney stack.

whats happening to the chimney breast if it goes into upper floors?

If there is a chimney stack in the flat above then how is it supported when the front half of the stack in your sister's flat has been removed.

 

[bobasd]

s+c is not perfectly acceptable nor is bonding. neither was your brief response to the OP's potentially, dangerous situation.

 

[dodgem]

photo of removed chimney breast

 

[dodgem]

I'm the OP!!

Sorry for the delayed reply - only just realised my post got moved to different section of the forum.....

In answer to your questions bobasd.....

you appear to be on the ground floor - whats happening to the chimney breast if it goes into upper floors?.

I believe upstairs also have removed their chimney stack to the first floor. It's unlikely they removed it in the loft.

is there a chimney stack shared by you and your neighbour?.

I don't know if neighbours still have their chimney stack. I assume they do not - if I can see plasterboard through the hole in the brickwork.

are there any other chimney breasts in your flat?.

Yes, 2 others. This is the only one that has been removed.

have you discussed this with your neighbour?.

No. Next door is tenanted out as a HMO, and upstairs flat is tenanted and managed by a reckless landlord (our share of freeholder) who we think was complicit in removing the whole stack with whoever owned our flat before my sister bought it - years ago.

do you know if the neighbour's chimney breast is complete all the way up to any shared chimney stack?

It's been removed on the 1st floor, but parts of it may still remain in the loft (we don't know).

can you post your pics in the usual DIYNOT way - advice is available ? the pic above wont open up.

Please find attached photo in post above.



I have begun to patch gaps with brick and mortar but as it's taking me ages - and I'm no skilled brickie - I have found a bricklayer who may be able to sort this fireplace out, but I need to come up with the best strategy of making our flat safe.

There are so many other issues with this flat, such as damp, flooding into a 'habitable room' in the 'cellar conversion', rotten timbers from above and below, wood worm, sloping floors/subsidence - all we can do for now - is make our side as safe/sound as possible.

It's a flat that has been tenanted out to high heaven for decades with no maintenance. My sister bought it without a structural survey...I know - big boobooo.

We ran out of cash months ago and seriously in debt trying to rectify as much as we can to make it at least habitable.

All advice appreciated!!

 

[bobasd]

a confusing week for me too.

if you can see/touch plasterboard in your neighbour's then odds on its p/b thats blocking his old fireplace.
assuming your party wall is 4 1/2" are the remains of the flue(s) that we can see your flue & his flue also?

the chimney stack is the part that sticks out of the roof.
at some time you will need to sweep both the other two flues in the other two chimney breasts - you need to sweep them clean of soot, and also determine if they go up all the way to the chimney stack(s) on your roof.
please post pics of any or all the chimney stacks on your roof?

all soot needs wire brushing from all reachable brickwork.
then the party wall at the back of your fire opening needs bricking up -
and then the front wall (in the room) needs bricking up too.

my advice is to remove all that jumble of infill brick, remove all debris, and then brick up correctly and safely.


where the c/breast went thro the ceiling whats happening ref plaster boarding over?
search for any gas pipes or isolators and have them made safe.
likewise any elec cables.

is there the remains of a hearth in front of the c/breast?
do you have a suspended or solid floor?

 

[dodgem]

a confusing week for me too.

if you can see/touch plasterboard in your neighbour's then odds on its p/b thats blocking his old fireplace.
assuming your party wall is 4 1/2" are the remains of the flue(s) that we can see your flue & his flue also?

the chimney stack is the part that sticks out of the roof.

I can put my tape measure through a gap in the party wall and its about 250-280mm thick.

Yes I think the next door neighbours have lined their flue with pb.

Yes the chimney stack is all still there and above the roof.

at some time you will need to sweep both the other two flues in the other two chimney breasts - you need to sweep them clean of soot, and also determine if they go up all the way to the chimney stack(s) on your roof.
please post pics of any or all the chimney stacks on your roof?

We haven't cleaned the other flues yet, on the remaining fireplaces.
I assume they left the stack for them - but I assume they will be compromised from the removal of the other stack.

all soot needs wire brushing from all reachable brickwork.
then the party wall at the back of your fire opening needs bricking up -
and then the front wall (in the room) needs bricking up too.

my advice is to remove all that jumble of infill brick, remove all debris, and then brick up correctly and safely.

where the c/breast went thro the ceiling whats happening ref plaster boarding over?
search for any gas pipes or isolators and have them made safe.
likewise any elec cables.

To complicate matters we have a suspended ceiling, about 600-800mm up to the ceiling /floor joists we share with neighbour. the jumble of bricks continue up above the suspended ceiling.

It is very difficult to get up there.

is there the remains of a hearth in front of the c/breast?
do you have a suspended or solid floor?

We have access to a semi basement and hearths are supported ok from below by brick pillars/walls.

 

[bobasd]

OP,
i ask for pics so that i can help you.

The first thing to do is to brick up the party wall opening to the neighbour's fireplace.
Smoke test the other flues one at a time to check if they are compromised - however, the chimney breasts go up thro the upstairs flat (s) and loft, so they too would have to observe for any escaping smoke.
And given the various badly done work so far on your side and the party wall neighbour's side then he would have to observe for escaping smoke on his side right up into his loft.
The great danger from knocked about flues is any future gas fire fumes escaping from gaps in the flues or tumbled flue feather's blocking a flue.

The jumble of brickwork needs following and re-building wherever it leads - you cant have possibilities of future accidents or gaps left in ceilings.

Some suspended ceiling tiles are not fire risk approved?
Is the ceiling itself intact?

google pics of chimney breasts, stacks - flues and feathers to understand more.

 

[dodgem]

OP,
i ask for pics so that i can help you.

Attached is a google photo and a photo I took from the garden.


I can't get access to neighbouring flats now - especially with the whole virus going on. We can only try and make our flat safe for now.
Tests will eventually be carried out on the other fireplace to see if smoke escapes into flat above.

I was thinking, as a start, we should make good the brickwork up to the floor joists above - which is the Party floor, and make sure the Party wall between us an the next door neighbour is solid!!

Not sure what else we can do at this point.

My previous brickie is self isolating and a local brickie - I tried to get - is trying to charge me 'day rate' and - I feel - profiteer out of me during this crisis.

 

[bobasd]

the stack shows four pots ie four separate flues. so there is one separate fire place and flue in the flat above.

there's no crisis to brick up except that sealing off from your party wall neighbour should be done when things let up a bit.