Clarification of fence ownership required please

[neilsadams]

I would appreciate some clarification of ownership of a fence as a couple of panels have recently been damaged and my neighbour keeps bugging me about replacing them.

The deeds show that the boundary to the right of our garden is ours and this is the side that the fence is on. Normally I would happily accept that this is by default our fence. However, after we moved in and started socializing with the neighbours, they told us (on more than one occasion) that they had erected the fence themselves and had had to pay a surveyor to ensure that it was on their side of the boundary.

Now we do get on with them and I don't want this to escalate into something ridiculous but I would rather have the correct facts before discussing this with them. In my opinion as the fence is on their land, it is their property and thus their responsibility to repair, is this correct?

Would they have had some form of paperwork from the surveyor to confirm that they had erected the fence on their land?

On the flip side, if we have got the wrong end of the stick and the fence is indeed ours, can we ask them to remove all of their plants which are attached, grow through and therefore damage the fence? I don't really want to keep repairing it if their plants keep damaging it.

Many thanks.

 

[phatboy]

If its on their land they own it, and are responsible for it.

Often the fences are put right on the boundry, so they are shared ownership.

 

[Bosswhite]

The plans of the property show who owns what fence, check the plans out.

You say the deeds show its your property, so its your fence.

Any Plants or trees that overgrow your property you can cut down (but give them back to your neighbour)

Solicitors love neighbour disputes its easy money !!!

 

[mattylad]

The person that paid for the fence owns it irrespective of where it sits.

If they said that they paid for it then its their fence to replace.

Be aware that you do not need to provide a fence, you are entitled to leave your land open if you wish.

Are there any markers that show the boundary?
If so then politely point this and their previous comments out, reminding them that it is in fact their responsibility to replace "their" fence panels if they wish for them to be replaced.

Whatever the deeds say, bear in mind - who would enforce what they say?
Mine were written in around 1855 and there is no one around to enforce anything on them. The same could be for your own deeds.

 

[maltaron]

In order to retain your relationship with your neighbour would it not be worth splitting the cost to avoid a dispute, or bite the bullet and do it yourself.

 

[kbdiy]

Lets be honest, if it's just the cost of s couple of fence panels then it's hardly worth going to war over. As suggested, you might get them to agree to splitting the cost otherwise just buy the panels and get on with it.

 

[phatboy]

I would still want to clarify the situation, or next time it needs repairs they will come straight back to you.

The best way would be to agree that its shared ownership, and therefore shared costs, I think.

 

[hazelbeck]

on our deeds the boundries which are our responsibility is marked in a thick red line. if your plan shows this then one must assume it is your responsibility. your neighbours may have had trouble with your previous neighbours and errected the fence themselves, if that is so you must look at if the fence is situated on their side of the boundry . just pop down to your planning office and they will be able to clarify it all for you , it is usually free.

 

[maltaron]

The thick red line denotes the boundary, "T" markers along this denote your responsibility for maintenance.

 

[planenut]

As suggested, offer to go halves, if they quibble and you originally thought it was your responsibility anyway, pay for it.

 

[foxhole]

If it's your responsibility then you can do as you please, you can choose to have a fence or not, there is no obligation to mark the boundary with a fence or anything else.

 

[conny]

I'd fix it myself for my own privacy but if, in the future, they 'remind' you that they originally paid for it then tell them next time it breaks they can pay for it.

 

[Blagard]

Regards fencing you can pretty much forget T marks on plans and even the deeds to a degree. Great as a reference in the early years but that's about it. There may be obligations in the deeds as to who should do what so don't ignore that. But after time it is less clear.

Once the boundary feature starts to be maintained by one side or the other its ownership can shift as indeed can the land it sits on. Because to own a fence on some-one else's land amounts to trespass.

No doubt some-one will correct me if I wrong but if there is a dispute on the ownership and one party ends up re-doing the fence, there can be no doubt who is doing the maintenance and after something like twelve years the land it stands on becomes the property of the maintaining owner as well.

It all gets very muddy under twelve years. In fact it may require a solicitor to get deeds and land registry updated to consolidate such matters.

So if some-one claims the fence in disrepair is not theirs and you decide the best course of action is to do it yourself, it would be wise to get their statement in writing.

Frequently there is no clear cut way to resolve such disputes, but one thing is for sure , if the parties go legal on each other it will cost a darn site more than the fence!

As for damage to fencing - I believe all property owners have a duty of care, not to do something that will damage their neighbours property. But like disputes, the only way to enforce such responsibility is by suing if damage is done! You can't say that plant is going to damage my fence, you can sue only 'em for the damage after. If they refuse to pay for repair can you can prove it? If they nail a trellis to the fence for plants, seriously what can you do? Not a lot except get upset. Rip the trellis off - then expose yourself to damage from the neighbour as the trellis will be on their property. It' s a can of worms best avoided any way you can by being civil.

I'll add a reference or two if I can, but you know - It is still a can of worms!

http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/public/guides/public-guide-16

http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/public/boundaries

http://www.landregistryservices.com/property-boundaries/?gclid=CNGF-6CnrLwCFU7HtAodWUkAmA

http://www.boundary-problems.co.uk/boundary-problems/fences.html

http://hoa.org.uk/services/ask-an-expert/maintaining-garden-walls-and-fences/

 

[mattylad]

Its 10 years, not 12

 

[Bosswhite]

Good Post (sic) Blagard,
Basically its up to being a good neighbour and discussing the Problem.

If the fencing is owned by the neighbour unless they have animal stock, i.e.cattle, there is no reason why they should repair the fencing, other than to make it safe.
If one takes it upon oneself to repair someone elses property for no good reason, this is trespass and they can be required to remove the repair and liable for all costs involved.

Just be a good neighbour and discuss the problem over a cuppa or a beer, this would save a lot of money on Solicitors fees.