Cold water pipe judder

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When you turn the cold tap off in the kitchen or the toilet cistern has finished filling after flushing you can hear a horrible judder of the pipe as the water stops. This has only recently started happening. We had a washing machine repair man in and a central heating service guy here working a little while ago and I know the washing machine man was fiddling with water connections under sink and heating guy was in airing cupboard (I did let him out!).

Anything they may have altered/done or just coincidence? Any suggestions please?

Thank you
 
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Possibly main stopcock (jumper/washer) below sink causing noise. Maybe flow rate altered by one of the guys you had in? Try turning it off and back on a half turn to see if it makes any difference. May need washer replacing, may not be that at all, but worth a try.
 
Didn't make much difference really. If it was the stopcock under the kitchen sink that was faulty would that also affect the toilet cistern too? I can live with the cold tap in kitchen making a noise but the loo is the problem as it is loud at night - only makes one sudden noise when it has filled. Could the washing machine guy have damaged the stopcock by forcing it if it was seized?

Thanks
 
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Didn't make much difference really. If it was the stopcock under the kitchen sink that was faulty would that also affect the toilet cistern too? I can live with the cold tap in kitchen making a noise but the loo is the problem as it is loud at night - only makes one sudden noise when it has filled. Could the washing machine guy have damaged the stopcock by forcing it if it was seized?

Thanks

Probnlem could be the water hammer, that is a sudden closing of water taps or toilet cistern causes this hammering or judder, and the causes could be many, including air locks, make sure your washing machine has been in use both with hot and cold feed if it uses both, most machines now use only cold feed, and run all taps including outside garden taps if any tpo remove any air locks, if this still doesn't sort then you will need a damper (a pressure vessle) that is like a water shock absorber, enquire at your plumbers, they may be able to help as to what is the best one to fit, it should also be fitted closeas possible to the offending tap or appliance that shuts off abruptly, like washing machines and modern pressure assited toilet cistern valves.
 
Thanks for your reply to this. We still have the problem. In the end I turned the stop cock right down under the sink to quieten things down. It means my pressure from the tap in the kitchen is low, but I can live with that - at least the loo is quiet now. The worst thing is that the outside tap pressure is VERY low. Very annoying when I want to wash the patio down. Our water company did some work in our street last week and the water pressure has gone up so the noise is back. I will have to fiddle under the sink again!
 
You need to get it sorted. I quoted to find cause of water hammer and fix, customer said it was to expencive and would live with it.

About three months later they phoned me back as they had been flooded by a burst pipe. Turned out it was a compression fitting under loo floor that had parted due I believe to the water hammer.

Total repair bill, £6,500.00. I got £80 for fitting a solder joint in place of the compression fitting.
 
If the water pressure has been raised in your area then this problem will certainly be made worse and may be coincidental to the work you have had done.....the cold water supply pipes need to be well clipped to walls and / or joists etc to make this problem disappear completely.
Shock arrestors (small pressure vessels really) do help but they need to be fixed fairly close to the appliance(s).
John :)
 
Unfortunately this occurred following our bathroom fitting a couple of years ago. Everything is well and truly boxed and tiled in, with a lovely tiled floor and underfloor heating. :( They were a bunch of cowboy bodge artists who then went bust. We are hoping that when we get our kitchen done the pipes coming down from the bathroom into the kitchen can be clipped and may help the problem.
 
I had a similar problem in a friend's old house, where hammering problem became a problem after they had a new kitchen & bath installed,

One thing was clear, there was no such noise problem before the new kitchen and bath went, it only became prominent after the builders finished kitchen and bath and were gone and couldn't figure out what was causing their problem, they were pointing it to the rest of the installation that should also be replaced!

However, the cause was quick closing of 1/4 turn sink taps, abruptly closing of washing machine filling solinoids, including sudden closing of toilet flush which used this new style pressure assisted servo valve on its flush, (the modern ones which uses the smaller float, so I was called to help them alliviate this irritating thud and clonky noise!

So I experimented by adding a long vertical copper pipe that just ran empty, with trapped air all the way to the top, just one 3m length, and the end was capped using a compression joint so that in future if any water filled into it, then it can be vented. This acted as a home made shock absorber and it stopped the hammer noise.

The end capped standard water copper tube running vertically will not allow water to enter it accept under pressure from the water mains, this will compress the aior trapped above in the pipe, so I guess the water will enter a certain distance up, compressing the trapped air, which absorbs a sudden pressure surge, so it is cheap surge arrester home baked style!

But remember, the prime reason the noise occurs is due to pipes bending or moving due to this sudden closing of water taps, causing a water hammer, which must occur in all installations, but only those will make noise where the pipes are not clipped firmly to the surface they are running along, although this old house did not have any problem before, that is before they upgraded a new kitchen that used 1/4 turn taps, and new bath etc, so the older unclipped installation did not produce any hammering as the older taps and toilet flush used slow closing valves or multiturn taps.

Washing machines may not always cause a hammer even though they have a solinoid valve that closes abruptly, this can be put down to the fact they are connected to the mains via a rubber hose, which can absorb some shock as rubber can stretch to absorb a surge, but then you might ask why is the washing machine causing this hammering now? Oh well that can be explained down to the fact the new washing machine came with sturdy nerw hose, which probably did not stretch as much as the older hose that must have seen better days and more flexible due to its age! .

Try it if you must, if you close any1/4 turn tap gently, this will not produce any hammering, so it is all to do with a sudden closing of flow, kinetic energy stored in flowing water!

Hey i love explaining! Can you imagine a water pipe let us say 30 meters long carrying water at a very high velocity! that is when your tap is fully opened, so imagine that length of 30 meter long train of water jetting through that pipe at say 2 meters per second! and if you now try to stop it suddenely! what is going to give in? correct compression joints and pipes will flex and bend and oscillate with energy trying to dissipate!
 
So I experimented by adding a long vertical copper pipe that just ran empty, with trapped air all the way to the top, just one 3m length, and the end was capped using a compression joint so that in future if any water filled into it, then it can be vented. This acted as a home made shock absorber and it stopped the hammer noise.

The end capped standard water copper tube running vertically will not allow water to enter it accept under pressure from the water mains, this will compress the aior trapped above in the pipe, so I guess the water will enter a certain distance up, compressing the trapped air, which absorbs a sudden pressure surge, so it is cheap surge arrester home baked style!
A 3 metre dead leg. Hmm. Might have been better to have fitted a 6" long, proper, purpose made hammer arrestor.
 
A 3 metre dead leg. Hmm. Might have been better to have fitted a 6" long, proper, purpose made hammer arrestor.

As I am not a regular plumber, I do it for friends etc, I do not carry a surge arrester around, but had a spare length of pipe and a few odd fittings and managed to solder it in, at a convenient location out of sight, and it did the job, I was quite pleased with that, and decided to leave that as a permanent feature! to date it has not gone wrong and has served its purpose very well, probably a lot cheaper than a proper commercial surge arrester, as well as I wanted to see if it would last and it did!

Of course if you carried out regular installations where modern quick closing valves and taps are in use, you should use one of these surge arresters any ways, regardless of whether pipes judder and produce the typical hammering noise, since the action of hammering must occur in all installations where water is brought to a sudden stop.

That sudden stop is what I was going about which causes the hammering as kinetic energy built up during water flowing must dissipate instantly when taps close in a very short time!
 

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