Combi Heating Control Programmer advice

[trenarren]

Hi, we have a new Valiant ecotec plus 831, I am looking for a wireless programmer to give me 3 "on" periods & 3 different temperature settings on a 7 day week! I am looking at the Honeywell THR872. Has anyone got any experience with this programmer, or any suggestions as to a better model?
Thanks for any advice

 

[David937]

Have you considered VRT392F? Might work better with your Vaillant boiler.

 

[simond]

I would advise against using a Vaillant controller, most users find them very hard to use. Lets put it this way, no-one from Vaillant germany controls is going to get a job at Apple any time this century.

Suggest you fit a Honeywell CM927! We always fit these, 6 timezones per day, different settings possible over 7 days.

 

[David937]

I would advise against using a Vaillant controller, most users find them very hard to use. Lets put it this way, no-one from Vaillant germany controls is going to get a job at Apple any time this century.

Suggest you fit a Honeywell CM927! We always fit these, 6 timezones per day, different settings possible over 7 days.

Simon, out of interest do your customers also seem to find the 'turn and click' controls hard to use? I do remember you saying that not many people would associate their heating to HC1 though!

 

[muggles]

I would also vote for the Honeywell

 

[trenarren]

Hi, many thanks for all the replies.
David, to be honest, the installers electrician also said that the Valiant programmer wasn't very user friendly, so I think I will go for the Honeywell.
Thanks again for all the help!

 

[UpgradeME]

As a customer (user) that has changed from a Honeywell (and previously a Danfoss) control to the Vaillant VRT392 I have to say we find the VRT392 *very* easy to use.

I think that the *old* Vaillant controls (the one's with only one control dial) were not very intuitive, however, the VRT 392 / 430 (with the TWO control dials) we have found to be very easy. The left dial is used to select the appropiate menu, the right dial to select the option, then just press (click) the dial to save the setting. (It's very quick and easy... Have a read through the manual here)

The worst we've used was the Danfoss, Honeywell was okay but the look, usability and efficiency of the VRT392 beats them all. Have a look at my thread(s) if you want to see the efficiency gains I achieved and the more advanced settings available.

 

[simond]

We have fitted a fair number of VRC430s.

One was for a chemical process engineer, at least two others were for IT specialists.

If you zre very interested in processes and technology, you will delight in the lwvel of detail the Vaillant controls give, and the few percent extra efficiency they liberate.

For everyone else, they are needlessly complex. As i've said befoe, if Steve Jobs had designed the iPad with a similar interface, he'd easily have sold a few thousand.

 

[trenarren]

If you zre very interested in processes and technology, you will delight in the lwvel of detail the Vaillant controls give, and the few percent extra efficiency they liberate.
.

Thanks Simon, yes i think i will play it safe and go for a Honeywell CM927, I will use the excuse that the Mrs cant operate an IPhone yet, recon the Valliant controller might be more earache for my self!!
Thanks

 

[UpgradeME]

Suggest you fit a Honeywell CM927! We always fit these

I would advise against using a Vaillant controller, most users find them very hard to use.

We have fitted a fair number of VRC430s

Out of interest, what controller do you use at home simond? And is it the weather compensation on the VRC430 they find difficult? (I've seen many threads on here where customers and RGI's don't understand WC) - The VRT392 doesn't have WC so is setup/operated in a similar way to 'normal' controllers.

We've been using the VRT392 for around a year now and my partner was able to use it without ANY instruction from me or a manual.. (She struggled with both the Danfoss and the Honeywell)

As a *user*, once the controls are setup according to our liking, the changes we tend to make are either:

1) Switch on/off the heating (i.e. winter/summer)
Turn the left dial one click and the display shows 'Auto' (i.e. the heating is now on) or turn a bit more and it shows 'Off' i.e. turn off the heating.

2) Adjust the temperature e.g. we stay up later than usual or everyone's out for the afternoon
Turn the right hand dial until the desired temp is displayed.

Nothing else has to be pressed / changed / lifted... it really is that simple.

From a user's POV, the VRT392 we found MUCH more intuitive and easier to use, especially when you want to use the more 'advanced' multiple daily temperature settings as you mention in your OP. I would envisage many of simond's customers with the CM927's were not setup with '3 "on" periods & 3 different temperature settings on a 7 day week!'

The thing we disliked about the Danfoss / Honeywell controls is they were not at all intuitive when changing / displaying the daily temperature settings. Lifestyles / homes can change from year to year, so the 7-day settings we had last year may no longer be suitable this year. On the Honeywell / Danfoss controllers you have to keep pressing buttons lots of times, switching between the multiple on/off times as they only show one at a time. The VRT392 shows you all the on/off times for each day on ONE display screen, making it MUCH easier to review. The dials then make it VERY easy to change the time or temp settings as you just turn the dial to highlight, press dial to click, then turn the dial to change. Simples, just like the middle roller on a mouse.

Whilst I appreciate that not all RGI's or customers will understand the advanced parts of the modern controllers, a correctly setup modulating controller can give you increased comfort and up to 10% savings on gas (which at todays/tommorows gas prices shouldn't be overlooked IMHO!)

The VRT392 will *automatically* control the temperature of your radiators, raising / lowering their temperature to keep the room temperature stable (similar in principle to how climate control works in your car) which saves you gas and requires no user intevention!

Non-modulating controllers (i.e. the CM927) will either have the radiators full ON or OFF. When ON they will be at the static temperature you set at your boiler.

 

[simond]

I have Honeywell Hometronic, controlling heating in 16 separate zones, almost room by room. 1600 setpoints a week are possible.

Honeywell have made a complex task very easy to use, this is the key to energy saving, IMO. There are a lot of clever controllers out there that have cost a few bob and the customers are frightened to use them, negating the apparent benefits.

The Hometronic controls my boiler (Kidd oiler) and a Villavent heat recovery system.

 

[UpgradeME]

I have Honeywell Hometronic, controlling heating in 16 separate zones, almost room by room. 1600 setpoints a week are possible.

Is it a pain to keep every door closed!?

Honeywell have made a complex task very easy to use, this is the key to energy saving, IMO.

I see Honeywell discontinued the Hometronic system (too complex for most home users?) and replaced[?] it with the much simpler CM Zone system... I do agree that things should be much easier for the consumer.

There are a lot of clever controllers out there that have cost a few bob and the customers are frightened to use them, negating the apparent benefits.

Tomorrows (todays?) home buyers have been brought up with technology which has advanced so much over the last 10 years. Personally I think the CH industry has been left behind and is now WAY behind the times when it comes to heating your home and control interfaces.

At the very least the 'current' controllers should be bluetooth/wifi enabled with an app to change settings from your mobile phone. Yes, there maybe 'add-on' devices you can purchase for several hundred pounds to add this functionality, however, the cost of adding bluetooth/wifi to a programmable thermostat would only be a couple of dollars, even on small production runs.

 

[simond]

I see Honeywell discontinued the Hometronic system (too complex for most home users?) and replaced[?] it with the much simpler CM Zone system

Nonsense - on all three counts.

I'm a heating specialist, I can install what I like, it is my day job. I would love to fit Vaillant ebus controls, because from an installation perspective, it is simple.

But experience has shown me that I have to invest loads of time hand holding people, sometimes two years after their cheque has cleared, how the damn things work.

I simply can't run a business that way, and my customers do not thank me for the aggro they go through having to keep reading the manual - which is, incidentally, written by a moron.

I'm glad you are happy with your controller, but I will not fit one unless a customer specifically wants one. That way I am not expected to provide unlimited tech support when they come back from holiday and can't remember how to get the infernal thing to work.

 

[UpgradeME]

I see Honeywell discontinued the Hometronic system (too complex for most home users?) and replaced[?] it with the much simpler CM Zone system

Nonsense - on all three counts.

I found the manuals in the "discontinued" section of several sites and couldn't see them for sale...

But experience has shown me that I have to invest loads of time hand holding people, sometimes two years after their cheque has cleared, how the damn things work.

Are you sure your not thinking of the old one dial Vaillant controls and/or problems with Weather Compensation? The VRT392 for example was only released in June last year!!

I simply can't run a business that way, and my customers do not thank me for the aggro they go through having to keep reading the manual - which is, incidentally, written by a moron.

True, the translation from the original German manual could have been better but once it's setup [by the installer] the new *two dial* controllers couldn't be simpler!

 

[simond]

The 'two dial' controllers have been out a couple of years, and are a little better than the earlier 'one dial' VRC400s. But my comments were aimed at the current product.

I'm a heating installer. You are a DIYer, you have one at home.

I and my staff fit this stuff for a living, day in, day out. Hometronic can have an internet interface, this has been the case for some years. There is very little demand for that particular piece of functionality.

Generally speaking, most people who would get excited about controlling their heating from an app, or via bluetooth from a device, also want control of the other house functions. This is a niche market currently addressed by a number of small fry systems integrators.

Many of whom use Hometronic for the heating and HW and write to a set of APIs via an interface, but that is another story you can Google later.