condensate problem

[raydar]

Hi wondering if you can help

Im planning a heating system for my 3 bed one bathroom semi. I want to fit a condensing worcester greenstar 30cdi to the house, but where the boiler will sit (upstairs) is no where near a drain/waste and it would take over 3 metres of external codensate piping to make a soakway.

I believe it is possible to use a condesate lift pump such as the grondos conlift to overcome this problem and run the condesate to a suitable waste area, is this allowed by the regulations?

is there another option? (please dont say dont fit a condensing boiler)

if it is allowed does the grundos need to be hardwired to the boiler so that if the grundos fails then the boiler will switch of and thus stop producing condensate?

If so does anyone have any experience or know how this can be done?.

The boiler, flue and gas will be getting fitted by a corgi reg installer but I plan to do the rest myself and I intend to get him to advise on gas flow etc before a spend my cash and buy a boiler that wont work. However I like to know my options and not just fit what is easy for the installer.

hope you boys can help

 

[bengasman]

Leave the design of the system to your installer, he will know how to choose the boiler, its location and the rest.
The boiler you have in mind is twice the size you need, which would cost you between £300 and £500 more than necessary, with absolutely no advantage compared to the right size.
Bear also in mind that for a RGI, doing the job as you intend to do it is a right pain in the you know where and fraught with problems.
Every good tradesman is aware of this, so the only people you will find willing to do the job this way, are those who are desperate for a job (for obvious reasons) and those that will grab your money and never come back to sort out the problems that will occur.
Last but not least, an installer who fits a boiler supplied by the customer is in no way obliged to warranty that boiler; “special offer” boilers are usually end off line, reconditioned, “light” damage or fallen off the lorry.

 

[raydar]

boiler can only go in two places and dont want it in kitchen.

Boiler may be oversized but plan to have shower off boiler and I am afraid DHW will be poor, dont want ****y shower, would a smaller boiler do? Gladly buy a lesser boiler if it will

I know that fitting this system is a pain for the installer but I would gladly pay extra to not have boiler in kitchen.

Not special offer or dodgy boiler? New boiler with guarantee will be bought.

I will take advice off corgi man and am glad of your input.

I understand you would not proceed in this way, but I assume it is possible and legal.

 

[bengasman]

Certainly possible, and completely legal, and no, not a snowflake’s chance in hell that I would do a job like this.

Yes, boiler comes with warranty. The problem is that the installer will not come and check if it actually is a problem with the boiler, or something due to sloppy installation.
In your scenario, the latter is the most likely. Just imagine we are talking cars and not boilers.
Do you think you could find a quality garage that would be willing to fit the exchange gearbox or engine that you found on fleabay? Of course you new engine would be sold with full warranty, but the garage would blame the supplier who in turn would point out that the garage must have made a booboo because their product is perfect.
Honestly, do yourself a favour and safe yourself lots of agro, and probably money in the long run; wb is a good brand, have it installed properly and enjoy years of problemfree peace of mind.

Your mention of the shower shows you are talking about a combi; in that case the size is about right, I missed the cdi in first post.
This does mean your incoming water supply must be large enough.

 

[raydar]

Really appreciate the quick reply and can relate to the car fix example as am a mechanic to trade.
Is it the fact that I want to do the radiator hanging/plumbing part that would put you off doing the job or the grundos instilation.
The grundos kit looks very easy to fit mechanically? All foor boards etc would be lifted and holes cut and lined where required.
The wiring from the grundos to the boiler may not be though! Do you know if the grundos needs to be wired to the boiler by law?
Also can the grundos (if it does not need to be wired to the boiler) be fitted by a non corgi reg?

I am by no way set on fitting this system but it may be the only way.

 

[bengasman]

To date, I never had a need for condensate pump. A few metres of outside pipe to soakaway is fine. Part of ongoing job getting a complete botch job to be efficient and reliable system is rerouting a 7 metre outside condensate of which 5 metres are horizontal, meaning NO fall whatsoever. Currently 22 mm and it has never frozen.
I advise a pump only when condensate MUST go up.

There is not one particular reason that I don’t do part installations. It is a combination of: when I sign an installation off, I sign off the whole installation. No disrespect, but I have never seen diy work completely correct. I have seen some decent bits but there are always parts that cause problems. I am sure you have come across cars that were “serviced” and “maintained” by careful owner on Saturday afternoons, same sort of thing.
Another downside is that there are always parts missing, or the wrong make that sort of fit but not quite, and all those other little things that are not vitally important but make the difference between a proper job, and spit and bailing wire.
Typical example are wickes and ikea who use stuff that is a little bit different from other threads and waste sizes.

Another part relates to the pump installation question; ALL wiring is subject to part P.
Technically, the RGI should either be electrically qualified and registered, or call in a sparky to do that part.

As for lifting boards, notching and all that, if you make it clear to the RGI that he will have to do none of that, or any cleaning, carrying, plastering or other making good, he should knock off a fair bit of the price.
For us, it is hard work, boring and time consuming. Bear in mind that drilling and notching in joists is precisely defined in building regs, and so it should. I have come across many a floor that had lost half its strength due to faulty cutting of holes and notches.

 

[simond]

I would strongly advise getting your installer to supply and fit the boiler and lifter. You will find yourself very limited in the choice of installer if you buy the boiler yourself. We won't fit a customer supplied boiler; we want our supplier back up if its a Friday pm unit, and we need to make the margin on the product. Most installers feel the same apart from the desparate ones.

Finally, the condense lifter is noisy and will come on whenever the float is high. In other words, at 3pm or 3am. Are you a good sleeper? We avoid fitting them unless absolutely necessary and then our quote contains the necessary warnings re noise.

 

[ChrisR]

Peristaltic lifters are v quiet.

 

[simond]

I haven't seen a Peristaltic condense lifter. Seen detergent dispensers et al. Is this a joke?

 

[Corgigrouch]

You are kidding about the peristaltic pump... Yes?? See them a lot on old aircon units and would not be my first choice.. Never fitted a tank pump to a boiler but I have fitted loads to air cons and yes they do have a 5 or 10 amp switch inside them to cut the power to whatever they are connected to when the float exceeds it's limits but they do make a fair old chattering noise when they run.. if you can avoid using a pump then do so as it is one more piece of kit that can let you down

 

[raydar]

After a bit research I believe that a condesate pipe can be ran longer than 3 metre outside as long as it is 32mm pipe. My problem seems to be solved

 

[corgiman]

if its external it has to be 32mm anyway

 

[bengasman]

Is my memory failing, or do relevant rules state “should”?
I believe ensuring there is adequate fall to be more important than size.
It is a well known fact that it is not too important how big it is, but what you do with it.

 

[kirkgas]

if condenstate is run externally is should/must be 32mm, if suggested 32mm will stop freezing and problems that will bring then it doesn't matter whether it is should/must if you do it this way you won't have a problem, i appreciate in gas work the difference between should/must is critical but not in the plumbing side, especially in this case where it CAN be done, more critical is where you can't fit 32mm and choose to fit 19mm but then later don't complain there is a problem with warranty etc.

 

[bengasman]

I agree. My point was that it is equally if not more important that the fall is sufficient.