Continuous draining dehumidifiers

[d000hg]

I would like to install a dehumidifier in a cellar we are having converted, about 4x3m. We already have one we use in our laundry room - I think it has a 3.5L internal tank or the option to connect a pipe to a bucket for continuous draining.

But as far as I know the drain has to be gravity fed and the only exit from the cellar is just below ceiling height. So I can't put a hose out of the wall.

I'd wondered if I can buy a more permanent dehumidifier that can be permanently installed, and if such units might be able to 'push' water out with a small force, so I could mount it high up the wall with a drain hose through the wall vent.

I couldn't find a more appropriate forum section - can anyone advise me if such things exist, and what I might google?

 

[flameport]

What is being done with the existing walls and floor? All will need to be fully sealed / tanked, otherwise it will be permanently damp.
A dehumidifier is not the solution.

 

[d000hg]

We're figuring that out, some sort of tanking solution will definitely be employed. The cellar is not actually that damp (I had a humidity meter there) so for instance no sump pump is needed - I think sealing is the route we'd go.

But even after that is done I would prefer to have a dehumidifier. We plan to put in continuous flow extractor trickle fans and maybe that would be sufficient but I would rather add the dehumidifier as well.

So, any recommendations? Do such products exist so I don't have to keep going down and emptying a bucket?

 

[d000hg]

BTW to discuss all the tanking aspects, which is the best sub-forum? Building?

 

[flameport]

They exist, but are typically intended for industrial use, not in a dwelling.
Examples: http://www.eipl.co.uk/Index.html

Building forum for the tanking.

If you haven't already found out - converting a cellar properly is expensive, and doing it cheaply will be a disaster.

 

[bernardgreen]

can anyone advise me if such things exist, and what I might google?

This might work

 

[SFK]

As a possible idea you could get a normal dehumidifier and pipe its water into a Condensate Pump.
These normally only turn on when they fill with water so no dry pump issues.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_...nsate+Pump.TRS0&_nkw=Condensate+Pump&_sacat=0

 

[SFK]

Bernard, you got there first :>

 

[SFK]

And from my limited experience (of one dehumidifier) this is an okay cheap dehumidifier that I selected because it was analogue (less to go wrong in the damp), is simple on/off (so can plug it into a timer) and has a (basic, arbitrary, not labeled) dial type humidity control on which you set the desired target humidity so it turns off saving power when set humidity reached.
https://www.screwfix.com/p/wdh-122h-12r-12ltr-dehumidifier/72503

Note that you only ever get the 12litres per day produced when it is in the tropics (ie 90% humidity at 35oC). They become more and more inefficient at low temperatures (ie use the same amount of electricity but remove less water). Mine working to reduce humidity from 70% to 55% at 19oC removes about 0.7litres of water per day, filling 4l tank in about 5 days.

 

[d000hg]

They exist, but are typically intended for industrial use, not in a dwelling.
Examples: http://www.eipl.co.uk/Index.html

Building forum for the tanking.

If you haven't already found out - converting a cellar properly is expensive, and doing it cheaply will be a disaster.

Thanks. Maybe a simpler solution is better.
I'm definitely aware of the importance of doing it properly - otherwise it will just be horrible. But I'll come ask about it in the other forum - thanks

And from my limited experience (of one dehumidifier) this is an okay cheap dehumidifier that I selected because it was analogue (less to go wrong in the damp), is simple on/off (so can plug it into a timer) and has a (basic, arbitrary, not labeled) dial type humidity control on which you set the desired target humidity so it turns off saving power when set humidity reached.
https://www.screwfix.com/p/wdh-122h-12r-12ltr-dehumidifier/72503

Note that you only ever get the 12litres per day produced when it is in the tropics (ie 90% humidity at 35oC). They become more and more inefficient at low temperatures (ie use the same amount of electricity but remove less water). Mine working to reduce humidity from 70% to 55% at 19oC removes about 0.7litres of water per day, filling 4l tank in about 5 days.

Yes the 'dumb' ones are nice that you can use a timer plug.
Despite being a cellar it's not that damp, certainly not wet. The way our house is situated, it's almost like they filled the ground around the cellar rather than digging down; somewhat like having a house with a cellar on top of a hill. It's pre-damp-course and cavity walls so of course water does come through the floor and wall, but at probably about the lowest amount that it could. e.g. when you down there it doesn't smell damp. Not like those cellars where they have water running down the walls and a constant pump to keep it dry behind the tanked walls!

 

[JP_]

If the cellar is sealed properly, dehumidifier would not be needed surely? Extractor fan should be enough? Tank, insulate walls with kingspan, tape up etc? (not an expert, never done it!)

 

[d000hg]

If the cellar is sealed properly, dehumidifier would not be needed surely? Extractor fan should be enough? Tank, insulate walls with kingspan, tape up etc? (not an expert, never done it!)

I would like to use it as a music room (after being happy everything is OK) so it seems worth it to me just to be safer.

 

[SFK]

Jon,
Agree, in my singular experience, a properly sealed basement (lined, insulated and plaster boarded) shouldn't need a dehumidifier.

But I have started to use a dehumidifier in a properly lined, insulated and plaster boarded, mainly because
- I seem to now have a hermetically sealed room.
- ventilation is poor (as has small windows/vents only on one side, and as in a light well spiders like to crawl in if window open)
- the room (and walls) are always cool in the Summer (heating is not on, and cooling effect of ground on 4 walls and floor is massive).
- so could see the humidity start to slowly climb to 70% on damp days and when people in room .
- and worried that warm damp air hitting cool walls could be an issue (although walls and window glass have been 100% dry in 6 years since fitting).

So dehumidifier in the summer has,
-reduced humidity to 50-55% (perhaps a bit too low),
-made room feel warmer - in part because now dryer and also because dehumidifier is using 210W when on, and so is having an (expensive) heating effect.
-cost me a fare amount in electricity

Better solution would have been better airflow (in my case very difficult), but if basement was cooler than rest of house I would be a little worried about warm moist air from above rooms being pulled into colder basement and condensing on walls.

I guess absolute best would have been to leave it untouched as a very drafty cold (but dry) coal cellar as the Victorians intended it to be.

 

[d000hg]

I guess absolute best would have been to leave it untouched as a very drafty cold (but dry) coal cellar as the Victorians intended it to be.

Indeed, this all comes about from trying to use rooms against their designs. A house we looked at once had HUGE cellars and I'm sure big cavities up between the walls - I forget the name. It was designed to promote airflow as I recall.

Our cellar is actually neither cold nor draughty. I think it sits at a virtually constant 17-18 degrees. It's more like a really tall crawl-space in the foundations. Sadly the rest of the house only as 1-2' gaps under the floor - at one time we thought we'd discovered a huge extra space!

 

[JP_]

How about those positive air vent things? Searching ... https://www.nuaire.co.uk/residential/positive-input-ventilation

expensive, but maybe cheaper to run, and you send good air in and force the bad out, rather than suck the bad out.

As suggested in another thread just now, maybe the problem with cellars is moist air from living areas above cooling and descending into the cellar.
If I did a cellar I'd cover all walls and ceilings with plenty of insulation and ventilate, hope that will be enough...