Continuous heat loop

[ptphome]

Hi, I am a small scale developer and recently finished two houses which sold earlier in the year. Both house buyers have contacted me saying they are not happy that it takes over 1 minute for the hot water to get hot.

It transpires the plumber I used did not put in a continuous heat loop to ensure there was instant hot water.

The houses built are large 4 bed detached houses of which the cylinder / heat pump / plant etc is appx 15 metres from the furthest bathroom, so it is no surprise it is taking a while for the hot water to reach them.

Whilst I did not specifically request a heat loop from the plumber, would it be a realistic assumption that a competent plumber should cost this into their price given they knew the size of the houses when given the plans at the outset or at a minimum discuss it with me before the plasterers followed in to see whether I would like it installing for an extra cost. Or shouldl I take this on the chin as my fault for not requesting this and wrongly assuming the plumber was competent enough to do it anyway?

I am now faced with having to pay him a large amount to come back and pull up floor boards and drill through walls to install this heat loop.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

 

[dilalio]

Hi, I am a small scale developer and recently finished two houses which sold earlier in the year. Both house buyers have contacted me saying they are not happy that it takes over 1 minute for the hot water to get hot.

It transpires the plumber I used did not put in a continuous heat loop to ensure there was instant hot water.

The houses built are large 4 bed detached houses of which the cylinder / heat pump / plant etc is appx 15 metres from the furthest bathroom, so it is no surprise it is taking a while for the hot water to reach them.

Whilst I did not specifically request a heat loop from the plumber, would it be a realistic assumption that a competent plumber should cost this into their price given they knew the size of the houses when given the plans at the outset or at a minimum discuss it with me before the plasterers followed in to see whether I would like it installing for an extra cost. Or shouldl I take this on the chin as my fault for not requesting this and wrongly assuming the plumber was competent enough to do it anyway?

I am now faced with having to pay him a large amount to come back and pull up floor boards and drill through walls to install this heat loop.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Personally, I would have suggested this on first walk around and have done so to various "builders", many times.

From my experience, I get one of three responses... "yes, do it", "no, it's all been costed and agreed" or "I'll raise it with the customer and come back to you".

When planning and pricing from drawings, depending on the details entered onto them, by the architect and the relationship with the customer/builder/developer, it Is not unreasonable to 'assume' that certain things, such as a 'secondary return' (heat loop, as you call it) have been omitted 'for a reason'.

My opinion on this is that you treat it as a learning exercise. It reads like this is your first project with the plumber and maybe also with the build (certainly of these size properties).

There's a big difference between pitching for work, from supplied drawings, for a new customer and 'consulting' with an existing customer about what the architect has not included in his drawings.

'blind pitching' means quoting low to get the work, as you are against competition and don't want to be viewed as trying to escalate costs, which can be unattractive to new customers.

Couple times I've asked builders if they want me to include a secondary return and they've said "shït! Yes! We came unstuck on the last one because of that!"

So, it's easy to overlook some things.

Have you considered how you're going to control the return pump? You don't want it running 24/7. A timer can be used but that requires tweaking by customer to balance cost vs comfort.
PIR in bathroom ceilings is best but more costly and disruptive on retrofit.

Return pipe can't be barrier pipe and all DHW pipework needs insulating to keep heat losses to a minimum.

Another one that catches developers out is to ensure that, if using a water softener, you have unsoftened supplies to outside taps, kitchen cold tap, CH filling loop and perhaps upstairs basin colds in case homeowners want to get a drink at night.

 

[ptphome]

Hi Dilalio,

Many thanks for your reply. Yes as you say, I think I put this down to learning and being somewhat of a rookie developer!

Yes I think we're going to use a timer for the pump so it's on just when required.