Cut out fuse

[ban-all-sheds]

Yep, a bit different to working on a live conductor though.
Hence the need to do a risk assessment and wear the correct PPE for the job.

Work on or near live conductors
14. No person shall be engaged in any work activity on or so near any live conductor (other than one suitably covered with insulating material so as to prevent danger) that danger may arise unless–

(a)it is unreasonable in all the circumstances for it to be dead; and.
(b)it is reasonable in all the circumstances for him to be at work on or near it while it is live; and.
(c)suitable precautions (including where necessary the provision of suitable protective equipment) are taken to prevent injury..

Note that it's (a) AND (b) AND (c), not or.

Having PPE does not mean that it doesn't have to be unreasonable in all the circumstances for it to be dead and reasonable in all the circumstances for someone to be at work on or near it while it is live.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Statutory Instrument 2002 No. 2665
The Electrical safety, quality and continuity regulations 2002
Clause 25 paragraph (1)
No person shall make or alter a connection from a distributor's network to a consumer's installation, a street electrical fixture or to another distributor's network without that distributor's consent, unless such consent has been unreasonably withheld.

 

[JohnW2]

[(a)it is unreasonable in all the circumstances for it to be dead; and.
(b)it is reasonable in all the circumstances for him to be at work on or near it while it is live; and.
(c)suitable precautions (including where necessary the provision of suitable protective equipment) are taken to prevent injury..[/color]
Note that it's (a) AND (b) AND (c), not or.
Having PPE does not mean that it doesn't have to be unreasonable in all the circumstances for it to be dead and reasonable in all the circumstances for someone to be at work on or near it while it is live.

In the context of removing a cutout fuse, are not (a) and (b) always going to be satisfied, in which case it does seem to just come down to PPE?

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

No person shall make or alter a connection from a distributor's network to a consumer's installation...

Do you really think "make or alter a connection" was actually meant to cover the removal of a fuse?

Kind Regards, John.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

In the context of removing a cutout fuse, are not (a) and (b) always going to be satisfied, in which case it does seem to just come down to PPE?

No - not when talking about someone other than a DNO employee trained and authorised by his employer to do the work.

Since DNOs will attend to remove and replace fuses, and since their instructions are that they must be asked to attend to remove and replace fuses, no way can it be said that it is reasonable in all the circumstances for an electrician changing a CU to be at work on or near the cutout while it is live.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Do you really think "make or alter a connection" was actually meant to cover the removal of a fuse?

Yes.

 

[JohnW2]

In the context of removing a cutout fuse, are not (a) and (b) always going to be satisfied, in which case it does seem to just come down to PPE?

No - not when talking about someone other than a DNO employee trained and authorised by his employer to do the work.

Where does the regulation say anything about who 'the person' is, or by whom they are employed - is that perhaps in part of the regulations you didn't quote?

Kind Regards, John.

 

[JohnW2]

Do you really think "make or alter a connection" was actually meant to cover the removal of a fuse?

Yes.

Obviously 'open to interpretation', but it looks as if we disagree on that interpretation!

Kind Regards, John.

 

[EFLImpudence]

No person shall make or alter a connection from a distributor's network to a consumer's installation, a street electrical fixture or to another distributor's network without that distributor's consent,
unless such consent has been unreasonably withheld.

I think the part I have made bold is very pertinent and, as with a lot of recently discussed regulations, a cop-out rendering the regulation meaningless.

What is a reasonable way of withholding consent?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Where does the regulation say anything about who 'the person' is, or by whom they are employed - is that perhaps in part of the regulations you didn't quote?

No - it's in the word "reasonable".

If it's your job to do it, and therefore (as the legislation must assume) you are adequately trained to do it, then it's reasonable for you to do it.

If it's not your job, and you've not been trained, and you've been instructed by the owner of the equipment not to work on it then for you to do so would be unreasonable.

And talking of training, there's also:

Persons to be competent to prevent danger and injury
16. No person shall be engaged in any work activity where technical knowledge or experience is necessary to prevent danger or, where appropriate, injury, unless he possesses such knowledge or experience, or is under such degree of supervision as may be appropriate having regard to the nature of the work.

and probably other generic H&S legislation.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

What is a reasonable way of withholding consent?

To offer instead a reasonable alternative to the giving of consent, such as saying that you'll send a trained and authorised person to do it.

 

[EFLImpudence]

To offer instead a reasonable alternative to the giving of consent, such as saying that you'll send a trained and authorised person to do it.

That's a good answer assuming they will turn up when you want and return when the job has been completed - and by the nature of the work this cannot be a predetermined time.

How long is the training for someone to become authirised to do this?

 

[Alarm]

To offer instead a reasonable alternative to the giving of consent, such as saying that you'll send a trained and authorised person to do it.

That's a good answer assuming they will turn up when you wantand return when the job has been completed - and by the nature of the work this cannot be a predetermined time.

How long is the training for someone to become authirised to do this?

Most decent office workers can run a planner and do it far better for not a lot

 

[JohnW2]

And talking of training, there's also:
Persons to be competent to prevent danger and injury
16. No person shall be engaged in any work activity where technical knowledge or experience is necessary to prevent danger or, where appropriate, injury, unless he possesses such knowledge or experience, or is under such degree of supervision as may be appropriate having regard to the nature of the work.

True, but it's that ill-defined 'competent' thing again! I know this will cause some flak (and I'm not suggesting that it's something that you or I should be doing) but I would dare to suggest that you and I both have enough knowledge, common sense and PPE (not that I've ever seen anyone use more than gloves when doing it!) to be 'competent' to remove a cutout fuse (certainly from a non-metallic cutout) - and we're not even electricians.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[JohnW2]

How long is the training for someone to become authirised to do this?

I think that's a very relevant question (or implication!). Whilst many may be uncomfortable with what I've just written about the 'competence' of BAS and myself, I seriously doubt that it would take more than a few hours, at most, to 'train' a trained electrician to be 'competent. to remove cutout fuses.

Edit: I forgot to add that I would think the mlost important part of that brief training would be to teach electricians what types of (old) cutouts they were advised not to touch, and hence leave to the DNO's staff.

Kind Regards, John.