Difference between C&G 2330 and C&G 2382, 2377 etc e

[HA106420]

Hi.

I was wondering if someone could spare me two mins in order to answer a querry.

What is the difference between obtaining electrician certification via C&G 2330 level 1 - 3 as opposed to obtaining C&G 2382 (17th Ed), 2377 (portable appliance testing), 2391 (inspection and testing), 2392 (verification)?

I have researched the Internet but can't come up with an answer. Does the C&G 2330 include C&G 2382, 2377, 2391, 2392, or is the C&G 2330 a far more comprehensive route and therefore is nor required to cover these other qualification?

Ant help will be much appreciated.

Cheers

 

[sparkybird]

2330 is a 2or 3 year college course Called something like "electrotecnical installation" It does not include 2382, 2377 or 2392 (I think 2392 is 2391 updated to 17th edition, as 2382 used to be called 2381 when 16th ed), These are separate courses, normally done over 12 weeks

2330 is a more comprehensive couse and others just cover exactly what they say (regs, PAT and test inspect). To be fully qualified you would need to do all of the courses (although not PAT is your not intending to carry out PAT).

Your college should be able to provide more info on the content and length of courses

Hope this helps

SB[/b]

 

[Spark123]

afaik C&G 2391 is still C&G2391, the watered down version for single phase is the C&G2392

 

[Spark123]

Hi.

I was wondering if someone could spare me two mins in order to answer a querry.

What is the difference between obtaining electrician certification via C&G 2330 level 1 - 3 as opposed to obtaining C&G 2382 (17th Ed), 2377 (portable appliance testing), 2391 (inspection and testing), 2392 (verification)?

The 2382, 2377, 2391 and 2392 are all additional courses for competent persons, the do not cover fundamental principles.

 

[Zambezi]

C&G2392 is Diet C&2391 or C&G2391 Lite
It is not as involved as 2391 and does not include 3 phase or PIRs, only new installations.

 

[Pengwyn]

2391 is obviously Inspection & Testing.
Because so many people where failing the 2391 C&G designed 2392 as a stepping stone to 2391.

So whats the difference ? The course is exactly the same, the info covered is exactly the same.
The practical however is ONLY for a new installation so only covers Initial Verification and the relevant EIC.
The theory exam is also a multiple choice and not a written where as the 2391 is a written exam.

I did the 2392 a few weeks ago because of the kudos around the 2391. After walking through the practical and getting 1 question wrong in the exam I kicked myself for not doing the 2391 straight off.

btw When doing the practical I was in the same room as someone doing the 2391 practical. After seeing him try to argue theory with the examiner (theory which he oviously didn't understand) and try to bullshit his way through his test I suddenly understood why so many people fail the 2391. It's not that 2391 is impossibly difficult, it is just that you need to prepare for it and swot up abit on your procedures and theory. This guy didn't and couldn't bullshit his way through. btw he failed..............

 

[HA106420]

Sparkybird (or anyone who can throw light on my querry).......

so if someone was to obtain 2382 (17th Ed), 2377 (portable appliance testing), 2391 (inspection and testing) and 2392 (verification), but not the 2330, would they be able to work as an electrician and still be able to carry out the same work as someone who has the 2330?

Reason I ask is that it seems apparent that people are getting certificates such as the 2382, 2377, 2391, 2392, and are then able to work as an electrician despite not having the 2330?

Does this sound likely or is that a load of rubbish?

Cheers

 

[Zambezi]

Different employers have different requirements.
BTW you do not need to do C&G2392 if you have done (or are going to do) C&G2391, it will be a waste of money (if you have a spare £400 to burn I will PM you my bank details )

 

[Taylortwocities]

You can work as an electrician without any qualifications at all! I have seen and worked with the results.

You need to ask yourself what quals you need to attain a certain goal. If your aim is to be able to self certify your installatuions and notify those that need it to the local authority then you'll need to join one of the five "Part P Registration Schemes".

They have differing entry requirements and certain limits are placed on the work that you can do if you dont have certain quals/experience.

You should decide where you want to go, research the requirements, and then go get 'em!

Being an electrician is a craft. It requires knowledge and experience. You wont get that from learning the regs and you wont pass the Inspection & Testing exams without having a good grounding in basic principles/.

 

[sparkybird]

Yes, I agree with TTC - even if you have the 'short' course quals (2382/2391) if you have no grounding in basic principles, how can you be a sparks?

I know people always want to go the quickest route, but 2330 is the first step, even if it takes 2-3 years

Are you wanting to work for a company or be self employed?

As Zambezi pointed out, different employers will have different requirements. However, for self employment, I think the Part P providers require 2330 unless you can demonstrate years of experience equivalent to this.

Your best bet is to get in touch with them and find out where you stand

SB

 

[ericmark]

There are loads of qualifications, which test your general electrical knowledge. Most electricians will take the C&G 2330 which teaches all the basics from, how to bend conduit, to what is a conductor and what is an insulator. There are many more which teach the more technical side HND and Degree etc. And of course allied trades auto electrician and Instrument will also have similar qualifications tailored to their area.

But the C&G 2330 is designed for the apprentice and starts are very basic and progresses through over the two to three years so by time their apprenticeship is complete so is the academic qualification.

However for anyone who has moved from one of the allied trades it is so gentle in it’s approach as to be very boring and a waist to time money and energy. Also although collages should teach the correct methods and at work one learns short cuts. In practice the collages are not always tooled up as they should be. The one I went to was putting forward the correct method to bend tray was to cut and bolt as someone had stolen the rollers and they did not want to replace them. And you will find yourself with students that don’t know Gold is a conductor! I could not believe what simple facts the students did no know. I lasted 1 day. Took a degree instead and with that it was only the maths which was in any way hard.

However the C&G 2391 is designed for people who are already electricians and the C&G 2392, 2382, and 2377 are also designed for the more adult student. Also they are run at times and places where the working man is able to take the course rather than requiring some form of day release. Hence those moving from allied trades can easy update themselves and work effectively as electricians.

But an office clerk is unlikely to learn enough from the C&G 2382, 2377, and 2391 exams the latter he is unlikely to pass. And there is a huge difference from the guy who has worked with electricians for 15 years and decides he wants to become an electrician in his own right to the guy who sees the TV advert and swallows the patter hook line and sinker. The only way the latter can get into the trade is to become self employed as no employer will consider him. And although the odd one may pull it off in the main they fail. Too much is missing in the get rich quick courses.

Think about it a graduate electrical engineer after three years in University will often start at just £16,000 p.a. What chance do you really think there is that a guy with 12 weeks training will have of getting 27k? Norm is self employed he will get a few house re-wires for which he has grossly under tendered for and end up working 12 hour days 7 days a week to counter his lack of knowledge. When he does his tax return for year looks at the 9k taxable he realises it is just not worth it. Then either gives up or if he is lucky with experience gained manages to get a job with one of the many house re-wire firms would still only pay £7:50 per hour.

Sorry to be bit of a damper but better you realise that the paths to being an electrician are not paved with gold even if it is a conductor. Max I have earned as a ex-pat electrician is 38khk$ a month approx £38k per annum which lasted just 5 months. As Ex-pat to Falklands still works out at less than £10 per hour. Yes you can find the good payers but even they are not as good as they claim. T5 was splashed all over the papers showing the really high pay. Believe me I was their it was no where near what the papers said.

 

[HA106420]

Thanks for the information. It is proving useful.

ericmark - thanks for th einput. Are you suggesting there is no point people training to be an electrician unless they do the traditional apprenticeship for three years with day release?

As far as I am aware these apprenticehips are now hard to come by and only available to those under 25. I am 28 and as such, do not have the option of doing such an apprenticeship. The next best thing, and the only apparent realistic option is to do a course (such as C&G 2330) to gain the thoretical knowledge and then to build on this with practical experience. I realise many people see this as a quick fix, but in some cases it is the only option.

There are many people who genuinly would like to become an electrician, either as a cereer change through choice or circumstance, or due to the wrong choices being made when such options were available..... not as part of a 'get rich scheme',

Sparkybird - Thanks for your time. I am not with a college as I am currently looking into my options and just trying to make sense of all the information. Am I correct in thinking the proper way to do (bar an apprecticeship) is to get 2330 level 2 and 3 and then gain experience as opposed to obtaining the othe C&G qualifications without the 2330. Cheers

 

[Pengwyn]

HA106420
I understand where you are coming from but without the theoretical knowledge you will never be an electrician, it is fundamental to understanding what you're doing.
I am not in a dis-similar position to you, I served my time in industry 13 years ago, went into the chemical side until now. Only now am I coming back into the industry but on the domestic side.
So coming into it again is abit daunting, even for me and I already had my 16th regs, HNC and 13 years experience in operations with loads of fault finding behind me.

If coming in from scratch like yourself I would recommend you get a job labouring on a spark and do night school. That way you will get the practical and theoretical experience quick.

 

[Zambezi]

There is an NVQ Level 3 course that can be taken, it seems similar to an apprenticeship but I think it is aimed at Practising Operatives.
Clarkson Evans Training does the course if you want to Google them for more info.

 

[HA106420]

Thanks for the help guys.