Dispute / small claims help please

[drewjak]

Hi All , Im hoping some of you will be able to give me some pointers and help in a dispute im having with a tradesman over some kitchen worktops.

We had some bespoke slate worktops made and fitted for our new kitchen in our bungalow renovation.

once our kitchen base units had been fitted we employed an specialist 1 man business to supply and fit our worktops, after visiting him a couple of times to view possible pieces which would make the worktops we chose our piece and he came to template the kitchen to cut the slabs ready to be fitted.
on the day of fitting we had previously agreed that we would pay 1k deposit in to his account and the other 2.5k cash on fitting ( he asked this because it saved him being vat registered and us having vat on our bill)

when we carried the slabs in to the kitchen and put them in position there was a a large section which had to be made from 2 slabs joined together , when we put them in to position the area below the joint was unable to support the 2 pieces due to it being a large draw area , he assured me at the time that it wouldnt be a problem as the method and type of special stone glue he used would hold the flat but joint together once he had it supported .

He finished the job and everything was fine,, we covered the worktops in bubble wrap and cardboard to protect them from dust etc as the house was still undergoing alterations and we werent living in it .

2 months later we began to move in the bungalow and while putting our kitchen belongings in the draw below the join the worktop split in 2 and slipped around 5 mm, I instantly took some picture and sent them to him to let him know what had happened and what we could do .
his reply was ...theres no way that has broke like that youve dropped something on it or the electrician has stood on it to fit you lighting, i have photos to prove there was no lights in the kitchen when i fitted the work tops......if you want me to fix it ill have to charge you to do it around £600 but first you have to pay me the outstanding 2.5 ??????? the 2.5k cash i had paid him before he would even remove the stone from his van !!!!

he has point blank refused to do anything , saying its not his fault and we owe him the money despite now 6 months later hes never sent us a letter or anything regarding money owed , hes just said verbally via a phone call its our word over his and we cant prove weve paid him.

I have a specialist report to say hes at fault for fitting the worktop the way he did . but hes still fobbing us off.

I cant afford legal help and the thought of doing a small claim is completely destroying me .

any help would be appreciated .

 

[Nozzle]

Can you prove from your bank account when 2.5k came out?

Nozzle

 

[Doggit]

Point out to him that it's also your word against his when you inform the VAT man. BY agreeing to pay him £2.5K in cash, you haven't done anything wrong, but the VAT man won't believe that he could provide kitchen worktops for just £600, and they will happily go back over his invoices for the last 6 years, and they'll make a judgement against him that he's then got to prove isn't right.

You can send him a recorded letter advising him that as an independent report states that the work has been done poorly, he either has the option to fix the job properly, or you will take the matter to the small claims court for the complete cost of the new worktop done by someone else. As Noseall has asked, is there any way you can prove the 2.5k taken out of you bank, as a judge may say that you can only prove the £900, but he should will take a reasoned view of the situation, as they've come across this sort of thing before. It'd cost £185 to issue the court summons online, and you just inform the judge of what happened, show him pictures of the worktop, and the experts report, and then let him decide.

Look at it as an interesting thing you've never done before, but have you tried Citizens Advice Bureau, as they may draft a letter that'll make him sit up and take notice.

 

[^woody^]

The small claims track in the county court is simple, and nothing to be worried about. It is nothing like the court proceedings you see on TV. It's informal and geared towards settling disputes without solicitors or legal mumbo-jumbo.

Pay your fee, put your claim in your own words, say why you think the installer is at fault, include your expert report and that's it. Most claims don't get to court and are settled before hand. The only costs you pay will be the court fee. You get that back when you win and don't pay any costs if you lose.

A dodgy installer won't want to go to court. Claim against the man personally.

 

[transam]

you can start your claim on line

google in "money claim" & click onto the Gov.claim site

 

[blightymam]

A dodgy installer won't want to go to court. Claim against the man personally.

Just out of interest Woody, if you don't mind, what happens if they don't pay up, even when they've lost the case? You hear about it on the TV and the press about shoddy workmen losing in court and still not paying. I often wondered where folk go from there - bailiffs?

 

[Doggit]

You need to formally give him a chance to rectify the matter of his own accord, then you can go for the claim. The judge wouldn't look favourably on you if you hadn't done all that was reasonable possible to resolve the matter first.

Can you find someone else to refit or rescue the worktops, and get a price, then discuss it with the initial fitter, then send him the letter. Now I don't know if you can record a phone conversation through your mobile, but that would give you evidence of his word against yours etc.

 

[HERTS P&D]

The bailiffs turn up, I done it to a company who owed me money. They paid on the spot.

Andy

 

[blightymam]

I cant afford legal help and the thought of doing a small claim is completely destroying me .

Don't get mad - get even! Or something like that? Sorry you've been buggered about, apart from small claims the only other option is to walk away from him and pick up the pieces yourself. I'd take him to small claims myself on principle I think. Good luck..

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Another vote for small claims- when you issue the claim, make sure you claim against him personally (joe bloggs trading as whatever)- that way (if you win) he can't do a phoenix company job to swerve the liability, the debt will stay with him personally and trash his credit rating. Good luck and enjoy- small claims is low key, no wigs & barristers & stuff like that.

 

[Doggit]

Except you need to claim against whoever issued the £900 invoice, and hopefully it is job blogs trading as such and such.

But going back to the worktop problem, can you post a picture of it, and another with the drawers taken out of the unit. Lets see if we can come up with a solution, and then maybe you can claim for just the cost of someone else repairing it - or as Blitymam suggests, swallow the cost so that you don't need to deal with him, and then just report him to the VAT man.

 

[drewjak]

Can you prove from your bank account when 2.5k came out?

Nozzle

Unfortunately we cant , when i started this project I took 50k cash from the bank to pay tradesmen and buy materials cheaper, something i now regret .

The guy has been horrible thought out , there was a few minor niggles after fitting with regards to the sealer being patchy and not applied properly , he told me to call at his workshop some 3hr round trip way through the country lanes of the lake district to collect some oil and seal it myself as it was to far for him to come for 5 mins work.....he eventually did after a few weeks of pressure.

He has offered to fix himself but at more cost to us and still maintains that , we owe him and once that is settled he will come and do it !
its not going to be able to be fixed without major work as stated in the report i have , i have sent him the report and he just laughed at me saying its pointless this man has no experience of kitchen fitting.

We have also had trading standards involved , they have noted things especially the you havent paid situation and the fact we paid him cash, they have advised court action , but i just need some more kind of info before i go into it as it seems like a mine field.

i have given him every opportunity to put an end to it , i've only contacted him by e mail and text messages so i have records of everything

 

[drewjak]

View attachment 114345

 

[motorbiking]

what do you have outlining the terms you originally agreed to?

Has he ever chased you for the money?

Your claim is for the cost of making good, not a replacement unless it can't be repaired.

what do you have to prove he confirmed the worktop was strong enough?

you aren't required to, but you should issue a letter before action outlining the claim. (let me know if you want help, but plenty of templates about) from memory the listing fee is about £120 and the hearing fee is about another £100. You should get a search done to see if he has outstanding CCJs if he has don't bother suing him it's a waste of £200.

if he comes across as a lying scroat then the judge will see through him.

it really depends how he responds to your letter before action.

As it stands i'm not fully convinced you have a claim for the full remedy.

If you win he has 14 days to settle after that he gets a CCJ which will screw his credit, you then go back to the court for enforcement and appoint a bailiff to collect your debt. All fees are recoverable. you can also just sell the debt on and take a loss, but it's easier.

 

[DaveHerns]

Suppose he puts in a counterclaim for the £2500? Lose the case and you're doubly screwed