Do I smell bovine droppings?

[Deryck Tintagel]

I know the regs for electrical works have changed recently but do you need to be a "competent person" to change switch / socket plates? and does it require a minor works certificate or BC notificaton?

I think not, but this is what someone said to me just recently

 

[EFLImpudence]

I know the regs for electrical works have changed recently but do you need to be a "competent person" to change switch / socket plates?

Should you do it if you are incompetent?

and does it require a minor works certificate

The law says:

Therefore you should make certain tests to verify that; e.g. is the earth wire actually connected to earth?
You may as well record the results.

or BC notificaton?

Not for the work you have indicated.

I think not, but this is what someone said to me just recently

OK.

 

[oldbutnotdead]

You've always needed to be competent to work on electrical equipment. You don't need any sort of qualification to fill out a minor works certificate. And in England household electrical work notifiable to Building Control is now limited to replacement consumer unit, new circuit(s) anywhere in the house and any additions/alterations within the specified zones in a bathroom.
So someone is yanking your chain somewhat

 

[EFLImpudence]

Just for accuracy, we may as well use the actual words of the law otherwise all sorts of things get confused.

So "new" consumer units - whatever that might be - are not notifiable.

 

[Deryck Tintagel]

Should you do it if you are incompetent?

Probably not This was in the context of having C&G qualifications to be deemed competent. I do not have a C&G. and I would no profess to know the ins and outs of electrical design, installation and test but I do know enough to allow me change a light switch safely

So someone is yanking your chain somewhat

My thoughts exactly. The conversation was going quite well until then

 

[EFLImpudence]

Probably not This was in the context of having C&G qualifications to be deemed competent.

The two things are not related.

Did your someone tell you that as well?

No mention of C&G.

I do not have a C&G. and I would no profess to know the ins and outs of electrical design, installation and test but I do know enough to allow me change a light switch safely

So, are you competent to do that?

 

[Deryck Tintagel]

Did your someone tell you that as well?

Yes

So, are you competent to do that?

Yes

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Just for accuracy, we may as well use the actual words of the law otherwise all sorts of things get confused.

View attachment 301202

So "new" consumer units - whatever that might be - are not notifiable.

You are quite right- I have a horrid feeling last time this came up there was a 10 page discussion about how a new CU would have to involve new circuits and so on and so on . Amended my post...

 

[JohnW2]

You are quite right- I have a horrid feeling last time this came up there was a 10 page discussion about how a new CU would have to involve new circuits and so on and so on .

Indeed. One interesting point is that thee law only talks about replacement of a CU being notifiable. Taken literally, that means that installation of a new (additional) CU, not replacing' any previous one, would not be notifiable! In practice, installation of an additional CU would usually involve 'new circuits', hence notifiable, anyway - but I suppose there would be scope for 'debate' if one installed an additional CU and moved some of the ('existing') circuits from thee existing one to it

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

There were four skill levels.

Ordinary
Instructed
Skilled
Competent

The latter had the safety of others in the title, for some reason a regular question on the BS 7671 exam. But Competent was dropped, it was a bit silly to have the two, but a competent persons scheme has nothing to do with being competent, it means you have met the criteria to become a member, and not been caught doing anything wrong, and you pay an annual fee.

It replaced the closed shop with the Unions, and data protection stops the different scheme providers swapping info, so if you get thrown out of one, you can join another, and there must be at least two scheme providers or it would be a closed shop, and firms can't demand you are a member of any one of the scheme providers as again that would be a closed shop which is illegal.

There is also the LABC who can also over see who does electrical work, as with the scheme providers they must ensure the guy has the skill required, but as a job to job basis, not a blanket cover of all jobs of the type agreed.

Many scheme members can't do all electrical work under the scheme, often the electrical installation condition report (EICR) is not covered by the scheme membership, and scheme members only can use the scheme providers logos, so if an electrician displays the scheme providers logo anywhere, then he is responsible for ensuring all work requiring registering is registered. Other wise it is down to the home owner.

The English parliament set the rules, then gave devolution so Wales can set it's own rules, then relaxed the rules, but the Welsh did not follow suit, Scotland has had its own rules since they started.

In theory the records are kept, but when I tried to get replacements it became apparent it is a deterrent and a tax only. I have seen court cases where the work was sub standard, and where electricians claimed to be scheme member but were not, but not any due to simply not registering the work.

In Wales if I use an extension lead in a kitchen and put some cleats to keep cable tidy, i.e. fix the cable or socket to the wall, even if plugged in, it needs notifying, I would not think anyone would do that, a little common sense is required.

 

[JohnW2]

There were four skill levels. ... Ordinary .... Instructed .... Skilled .... Competent

In who's eyes?

Assuming they came in 'increasing order', what was the point/significance in being 'instructed' or 'skilled' if they were still not 'competent'?

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

Ordinary person

. A person who is neither a skilled person nor an instructed person.
Instructed person. A person adequately advised or supervised by skilled persons to enable him/her to avoid dangers which electricity may create.
Skilled person. A person with technical knowledge or sufficient experience to enable him/her to avoid dangers which electricity may create.
Competent person. A person who possesses sufficient technical knowledge, relevant practical skills and experience for the nature of the electrical work undertaken and is able at all times to prevent danger and, where appropriate, injury to him/herself and others.

After 2008 competent person was dropped. Maybe to avoid confusion as Part P brought in the competent person scheme, but it seems Skilled person only looks after himself, where competent also looks after others.

 

[JohnW2]

Skilled person. A person with technical knowledge or sufficient experience to enable him/her to avoid dangers which electricity may create.
Competent person. A person who possesses sufficient technical knowledge, relevant practical skills and experience for the nature of the electrical work undertaken and is able at all times to prevent danger and, where appropriate, injury to him/herself and others.

After 2008 competent person was dropped. Maybe to avoid confusion as Part P brought in the competent person scheme,

That could be the explanation but, even before 2008, I don't really understand the difference between "skilled" and "competent" persons per those definitions. If a "skilled" person were able to "avoid dangers which electricity may create" would they not also satisfy the definition of "competent person"? Although you go on to say ...

....but it seems Skilled person only looks after himself, where competent also looks after others.

... I see nothing in the above definition of a "skilled person" which restricts the avoidance of "dangers which electricity may create" to dangers which only affect the "skilled person", do you?

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

Likely why it was dropped, but it seemed to be a question often asked in the exam.

 

[JohnW2]

Likely why it was dropped, but it seemed to be a question often asked in the exam.

Agreed. However, there was, in practice, another issue. The previous definitions (which you quoted) give no real indication of how one was meant to decide whether a particular person was "skilled" or "competent", given that the definitions were so similar!

... not to mention, of course, the fact that the word 'competent" has a very well-established 'everyday' meaning.

Kind Regards, John