Do you think we've been to the moon ?

[fender]

I could debate this forever, but I'm tired now.
I'll catch up on the topic tomorrow.....

 

[noseall]

Half a million people can not be coerced into lying. Even if it were a dozen, it would be difficult to keep a lid on it.

 

[mikeey84]

I don't think the arguments are weak at all.
There are a considerable number of anomalies / inconsistencies which don't add up.

The number or people / companies involved may be irrelevant. It's called compartmentalization which the yanks are quite good at.

Care to list them, so we can debunk them one by one?

 

[EFLImpudence]

N.S.A.

 

[Brigadier]

What's the unmanned stuff got to do with it? None of them carried people.
We are talking about humans actually walking on the moon and being able to return.

It has everything to do with it. The more you think about a conspiracy, the more bizarre it sounds. Why launch a rocket larger than any other rocket, large enough to carry a moon lander, with crew on board, then fake the landing? Why send something to the moon and back as recorded by observatories, and fake it? Why conduct docking manouevres and other tests then fake landings! Why would thousands collaborate in fraud, with no evidence apart from rather weak arguments? How could such a gigantic fraud be hidden? Workers would queue up to sell their stories.

Not picking on you WWT, but your post is structured enough to be able to provide counter-points.

Have a flight of fancy.....

The President and his inner circle have decided that the Russians need putting back in their box.
They decide that a manned Moon landing will do it (space exploration being very topical, back then).
While all of it is damned difficult, getting humans, alive, to the Moon is hugely more so.
Getting them onto the Moon itself, unbelievably so.
Getting them off the Moon - staggeringly so.

If you take WWT's post and, instead of working forwards, work backwards, you can see how it could be faked.
"The reputation, and possibly fate, of the free West depends on this. The manned Moon mission happened. We just have to make it so."

If the President has already told you that the Moon landing did happen - "Now go away and make it happen.", rocket size, docking manouevres, tests, etc, are all window dressing.

If you were faking a Moon landing, what would you do?
If you spent a fortune on a fancy film set, yet had some wobbly pictures of a bog-roll rocket hanging on a piece of cotton, you'd be a plank.
Make a big show of what you can do - shove the biggest (unmanned) candle into space - proven tech.
Dockings and such - proven tech.
Splashdown, and recovery to great fanfare - proven tech.

Just leave out the staggeringly difficult bit.


(FWIW, I believe that humans actually went there. And every time I look up at the Moon, I still have to make myself believe it could have happened.)

 

[WalksWithTurkeys]

What's the unmanned stuff got to do with it? None of them carried people.
We are talking about humans actually walking on the moon and being able to return.

It has everything to do with it. The more you think about a conspiracy, the more bizarre it sounds. Why launch a rocket larger than any other rocket, large enough to carry a moon lander, with crew on board, then fake the landing? Why send something to the moon and back as recorded by observatories, and fake it? Why conduct docking manouevres and other tests then fake landings! Why would thousands collaborate in fraud, with no evidence apart from rather weak arguments? How could such a gigantic fraud be hidden? Workers would queue up to sell their stories.

Not picking on you WWT, but your post is structured enough to be able to provide counter-points.

Have a flight of fancy.....

The President and his inner circle have decided that the Russians need putting back in their box.
They decide that a manned Moon landing will do it (space exploration being very topical, back then).
While all of it is damned difficult, getting humans, alive, to the Moon is hugely more so.
Getting them onto the Moon itself, unbelievably so.
Getting them off the Moon - staggeringly so.

If you take WWT's post and, instead of working forwards, work backwards, you can see how it could be faked.
"The reputation, and possibly fate, of the free West depends on this. The manned Moon mission happened. We just have to make it so."

If the President has already told you that the Moon landing did happen - "Now go away and make it happen.", rocket size, docking manouevres, tests, etc, are all window dressing.

If you were faking a Moon landing, what would you do?
If you spent a fortune on a fancy film set, yet had some wobbly pictures of a bog-roll rocket hanging on a piece of cotton, you'd be a plank.
Make a big show of what you can do - shove the biggest (unmanned) candle into space - proven tech.
Dockings and such - proven tech.
Splashdown, and recovery to great fanfare - proven tech.

Just leave out the staggeringly difficult bit.


(FWIW, I believe that humans actually went there. And every time I look up at the Moon, I still have to make myself believe it could have happened.)

Not picking on you but your post just happened to be quoted above.

Honestly, I don't follow your argument, it is hard enough to cover up an operation involving just a handful of people, for thousands or more to keep quiet beggers belief.

Many would think it unbelievable that man escaped this planet and went into orbit. And yet Yuri Gagarin did just that. The Soviet moon programme might have worked had their cheif designer, Koralev, not died in the mid 60's, and had it been funded properly. You are of course correct that it was a matter of US pride. The USSR got the first satellite in order, the first man in orbit, the first women in orbit and the first space walk. America's first rockets exploded until they let the Nazi rocket scientists have a go. They then launched a satellite, and a man into a sub-orbital flight, followed by a man in orbit. The moon programme was their way to establish the superiority of the American way.

 

[Brigadier]

The moon programme was their way to establish the superiority of the American way.

Ergo, it had to succeed.
You are defeating your own position, WWT.

 

[fender]

I don't think the arguments are weak at all.
There are a considerable number of anomalies / inconsistencies which don't add up.

The number or people / companies involved may be irrelevant. It's called compartmentalization which the yanks are quite good at.

Care to list them, so we can debunk them one by one?

No not really,

Not sure I can be bothered now.
Neither side will change their mind in the end. I'll post something, others will debunk and I'll just debunk the debunk.
This has come up on countless forums in the past and I've seen it go to literally hundreds of pages, and still nobody will change their stance.

You can deem it a cop out if you wish, but been there before and I really can't be bothered to do it again...

 

[WalksWithTurkeys]

The moon programme was their way to establish the superiority of the American way.

Ergo, it had to succeed.
You are defeating your own position, WWT.

Only if you extract one statement, and ignore the rest of my thoroughly compelling argument. Even nosey decided to throw the full weight of his immense intellect at this one, and came down on my side of the discussion. How can you argue with that?

 

[fender]

Nosey is a legend.......
(You said we should still take the pee nosey...)

 

[Brigadier]

The moon programme was their way to establish the superiority of the American way.

Ergo, it had to succeed.
You are defeating your own position, WWT.

Only if you extract one statement, and ignore the rest of my thoroughly compelling argument. Even nosey decided to throw the full weight of his immense intellect at this one, and came down on my side of the discussion. How can you argue with that?

I have no response to that

 

[noseall]

This has come up on countless forums in the past and I've seen it go to literally hundreds of pages, and still nobody will change their stance.

Yes, and there is reason they are called conspiracy theories. All are a bit daft but fun to debate.

 

[mikeey84]

I don't think the arguments are weak at all.
There are a considerable number of anomalies / inconsistencies which don't add up.

The number or people / companies involved may be irrelevant. It's called compartmentalization which the yanks are quite good at.

Care to list them, so we can debunk them one by one?

No not really,

Not sure I can be bothered now.
Neither side will change their mind in the end. I'll post something, others will debunk and I'll just debunk the debunk.
This has come up on countless forums in the past and I've seen it go to literally hundreds of pages, and still nobody will change their stance.

You can deem it a cop out if you wish, but been there before and I really can't be bothered to do it again...

Fair enough.

 

[fender]

Thanks Mike,

A genuine non confrontational comment.

 

[WalksWithTurkeys]

Nosey is a legend.......
(You said we should still take the pee nosey...)

Nosey is a leg end? If you say so. Could have been worse.