dropped kerb refusal

[ajrobb]

i suppose the argument is you drop the kerb then its exclusively your space and no one else can use it

Strictly speaking, I don't think there is anything legal to stop someone obstructing a driveway as long as there is no vehicle on it. You only have the right to access the highway, not your own land.

Maybe you could use the argument that "only if you have a vehicle on the drive then you are using the space for the dropped kerb". Otherwise, it is still available for parking.

OK, so no reasonable person is going to obstruct a driveway, that leaves about 10% of the population who won't think twice. Also, a dropped kerb space is a great place for delivery drivers to stop. It is also a passing space for narrow roads. You'd be adding an amenity.

 

[Nelilaurie]

thank you 1990

We are not in a Residents Only, or other controlled parking zone. And I understand from neighbours that the council has previously refused requests to make it so.

 

[Nelilaurie]

One more thought which I would appreciate your comments on.

The problem we have is with Highways. Planning are happy given that they issued me a Certificate of Lawfulness to remove the wall for the purpose of off road parking.

What happens if I put in a full planning application to remove more of the wall (we live in a conservation area) and enlarge the opening from 2.3 to 2.4 or 2.5m, for the purpose of off road parking?

Assuming planning may refuse, and I take it to formal appeal (which I believe we would win given that almost every house in the conservation area, except out terrace has dropped kerbs) would highways be bound by the decision, or could they even then continue to refuse permission?

I look forward to your views. Thank you.

 

[jeds]

You have the right to appeal a refused vehicle crossover - details should be on the refusal letter.

 

[Nelilaurie]

Thank you JEDS

Sadly you are wrong. There is no right of appeal against a decision of the Highways authority.

 

[jeds]

I doubt there is a right to appeal within the Highways Act but if you apply for planning permission and its refused you have a right to appeal that decision. If an inspector allows your appeal then that would certainly override anything the highways officer thinks about it. The following are examples of appeals against refused crossovers.

http://www.pcs.planningportal.gov.u...BJ=COO.2036.300.12.1801505&NAME=/Decision.pdf

http://www.pcs.planningportal.gov.u...BJ=COO.2036.300.12.1820658&NAME=/Decision.pdf

 

[Nelilaurie]

Thank you JEDS

Yes, their is an independent appeal for planning.
But No right of appeal for highways authority decisions.

If you look at my OP, we have A Certificate of Lawfulness to remove our wall (in a conservation area- where most other houses have dropped kerbs) for the purpose of Off Road parking. Therefore I do not need to appeal planning

Highways are a separate issue- and there is no appeal.

Hence considering a full planning application just for the purpose of going through the appeal, when highways inform planning of their objection-- but would highways be bound by the appeal judgement?

 

[Jackthebiscuit]

i suppose the argument is you drop the kerb then its exclusively your space and no one else can use it

Strictly speaking, I don't think there is anything legal to stop someone obstructing a driveway as long as there is no vehicle on it. You only have the right to access the highway, not your own land.

Maybe you could use the argument that "only if you have a vehicle on the drive then you are using the space for the dropped kerb". Otherwise, it is still available for parking.

OK, so no reasonable person is going to obstruct a driveway, that leaves about 10% of the population who won't think twice. Also, a dropped kerb space is a great place for delivery drivers to stop. It is also a passing space for narrow roads. You'd be adding an amenity.

Hello ajrobb,

What many people do not realise this that it is in fact illegal for even a home owner/resident to park across their own driveway,, let alone anyone else.

Some think that by dropping the kerb that it then gives them ‘ownership’ to the 3 metres or so of highway in front of their house,,, and that they can then dictate who, and who does not, park there. It doesn’t, and nor should it.

 

[Nelilaurie]

Sorry JEDS just reread your helpful comments and you have already addressed my points. I will look at the web links

Thank you

 

[ajrobb]

What many people do not realise this that it is in fact illegal for even a home owner/resident to park across their own driveway,, let alone anyone else.

This contradicts what the police told me when someone parked across my drive, except when there is a vehicle on private land and access to the highway is protected. I suppose if you have one car parked on a drive, it is illegal to park another across the drive.

 

[Jackthebiscuit]

What many people do not realise this that it is in fact illegal for even a home owner/resident to park across their own driveway,, let alone anyone else.

This contradicts what the police told me when someone parked across my drive, except when there is a vehicle on private land and access to the highway is protected. I suppose if you have one car parked on a drive, it is illegal to park another across the drive.

Well, all I can say is not to be influenced by what one police officer has told you. If indeed they did say this, then I suspect there is more to your story as it sounds utter nonsense.

The law actually makes sense. How on earth is a traffic warden/tow truck driver/police who see a car parked across a driveway suppose to know if the vehicle has the permission of the home owner/tenant or not?

And why should folk be able to dictate who parks on the public road? Those with driveways cannot expect a towey to turn up and drag away a vehicle that is not known to them, but then sanction parking to family/visitors/friends/tradesmen etc by giving them permission to park on a piece of road that they don’t own.!

 

[ajrobb]

The law actually makes sense. How on earth is a traffic warden/tow truck driver/police who see a car parked across a driveway suppose to know if the vehicle has the permission of the home owner/tenant or not?

I never said that the land owner had any rights other than access onto the highway. They don't own the highway, so I can't see how they can give 'permission' for people to park on it. Maybe any vehicle, which is blocking access of another vehicle onto the highway, is parked illegally, whether it's there by mutual consent or not.

From this thread, it sounds like the Highways Agency grants permission to create an access onto the highway, which would be indicated by a dropped kerb in this case.

 

[^woody^]

Thank you JEDS

Sadly you are wrong. There is no right of appeal against a decision of the Highways authority.

There is always a right to question any council decision

You can follow the council's complaints procedure to find out if the decision was based on correct policy and procedure, as opposed to an ill-informed random decision.

If not happy after that you can complain to the Local Government Ombudsman

You can also get Solicitors advice - albeit this may be costly, but it may be that the council are clearly wrong and so an initial consultation may be worth while.

My understanding is that the Highways Authority must look at each case individually and on its own merits. Precedence can not be part of the decision process, it must be purely on the legal requirements and public benefit/interest.

Obviously if one kerb is allowed then other people may say, "well if they have one, I want one" but despite that causing the council more work and making it harder to say "no" (which is what they are probably trying to prevent) it should not matter in terms of the merits of the individual application

I can't see what benefit getting the planning permission will give as it is not relevant to highway matters - although highway matters are relevant to the granting of planning permission

 

[RedHerring2]

The law actually makes sense. How on earth is a traffic warden/tow truck driver/police who see a car parked across a driveway suppose to know if the vehicle has the permission of the home owner/tenant or not?

I never said that the land owner had any rights other than access onto the highway. They don't own the highway, so I can't see how they can give 'permission' for people to park on it. Maybe any vehicle, which is blocking access of another vehicle onto the highway, is parked illegally, whether it's there by mutual consent or not.

From this thread, it sounds like the Highways Agency grants permission to create an access onto the highway, which would be indicated by a dropped kerb in this case.

I've now realised why we have a white line painted in the road across the dropped kerb, because we have a garage and cars can be parked out of sight from the dropped kerb.
Some other properties in this street also have white lines across the dropped kerb and some properties do not have them. The reason is now clear, some properties can park cars out of sight of the dropped kerb. others can't.

 

[^woody^]

I did not think that the white lines denoted anything legally enforceable and were purely advisory designed to make people think that they should not park there .... the same as those dashed "disabled" bays painted on the side of roads outside someone's house