Earth bonding and Earth Cable Runs

[ban-all-sheds]

I think it's required to pass the rules and get a certificate ..this is a first time gas boiler installation

But you aren't installing the boiler, so why not leave the matters of what's required for a compliant installation to the competent person who is doing it?

No earth cable runs from the bonding back to the meter /main earth /consumer meter area..
which is all i wanted to know really.

Why?

He also told me technically, if eathing tests ok and has rcd..then you dont have to have the bonding ..it just keeps them happy, if you put the bonding in ..

Who?

There's nobody you have to keep happy because you are not installing the boiler.

the more you can connect everything up ..the better you are protected...

No.

for what it costs when you DIY it ..why not .

How about because supersition and ignorance are not sound bases for electrical design?

all the best.markj

I think not.

 

[aboardepsilon]

make of it what you want .

all the best.markj

 

[RF Lighting]

Read it again. It says "In each installation main protective bonding conductors complying with Chapter 54 shall connect to the main earthing terminal extraneous-conductive-parts including the following:"

(iv) Central heating

Yes, IF the central heating system is an extraneous-conductive-part. If it isn't, then it does not need bonding.

Do you actually understand what an extraneous-conductive-part is, and what causes it to become an extraneous-conductive-part?

Are you saying radiators, pipes and boilers can never be extraneous-conductive parts?

Not never, but very very rarely.

The central heating is virtually bound to be connected to the gas and water.
Nevertheless it is specifically mentioned in the regulations as needing MAIN protective bonding?

I'll say it again. Only if it's an extraneous-conductive-part, which if it is like 99% of heating installations in this country then it will not be. Being connected to the gas and water or not has no bearing on whether it is an extraneous-conductive-part, and I don't believe you actually understand what makes some metal work an extraneous-conductive-part, and others not.

well i don't know if this is relevant to it ..

No it isn't really.

a few years ago my electricity was tripping the rcd on the odd occasion ...i did not put two and two together....and work out that it was the immersion heater .until after about the 3rd or 4th trip ..when it didn't want to reset ..

until i turned off the immersion mcb.

a day or two later i investigated .took the immersion heater out ..and it had rotted.......the copper covering the elements was gone in places ..and the inner core was exposed .

Nothing would have happened. Your immersion heater is an exposed-conductive-part and is earthed so that in the event of a fault, the circuit is automatically disconnected, exactly as your circuit did.

Earthing is completely different to bonding, as as you can see from your own example it provides a different function to bonding all together.

i had non of this earth bonding then, except the water main and the main electric riser . ..but ..it lead me to think of ..what if i was having a bath when this happened ..

Bonding would have made no difference at all. Bonding is not there to provide automatic disconnection in the event of a fault.

Merely pointing out what is in the regulations.

I know exactly what is written in the regulations, but it appears you don't actually understand what it means.

Then statements like this are written -

411.3.1.2 does not apply to radiators, pipes and a boiler in a normal house, because none of those items will be extraneous conductive parts.

I agree 411.3.1.2 does not apply but do you agree with the rest of it.

Agree with the rest of what? Regulation 411.3.1.2 is entirely correct. It is just that it does not apply to central heating systems which do not contain any extraneous-conductive-parts, i.e. virtually all domestic heating systems.

 

[dingbat]

What RF means is that if main protective bonding is carried out at the origin of gas and water services into the premises there is no requirement to use additional main protective bonding conductors on pipework downstream of the origin. Indeed, it would serve no useful purpose.

 

[aboardepsilon]

The thing is ..whats right in some people heads is wrong in others .

like i said ..you could loose a house sale over it because a surveyor mentioned it on the survey.
weather the bonding does what it does doesn't matter .but it does make something look more professional in some peoples eyes.


I remember when i was about 19 and looking for a house, 30 years ago..i knew nothing ..i was green

first house i looked at was 9 years old was a beauty £18,000..small bungalow in an acre of land..and still is ....no NHBC certificuit.....was advised not to buy because of this......

2nd house i looked at built around 1900, £22,000, loads of character, again 1 acre ..on a hillside , fantastic views .......was built out of teracotter block..again , was advised not to buy (block not recognised in the building industry)....that house now worth something like £250,000

young people are easily put off ..as i was at the time ..Perhaps it was destiny though .i don't know .

all the best.markj

 

[EFLImpudence]

All I did in the first place was quote 411.3.1.2(iv) saying "Make of it what you will" because that was what aboardepsilon was asking about, he also wrote-

I think it's required to pass the rules and get a certificate ..this is a first time gas boiler installation.

which I, too, have recently heard.

Then came a blanket statement-

411.3.1.2 does not apply to radiators, pipes and a boiler in a normal house, because none of those items will be extraneous conductive parts.

The second part of which I was questioning. They could be,

Bonding has been excellently explained in the past and I have not, in this post, stated that the central heating should be bonded - merely brought the regulation into the topic.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The thing is ..whats right in some people heads is wrong in others .

Oh, the irony.....

weather the bonding does what it does doesn't matter .

On the contrary, it matters very much what it does.

but it does make something look more professional in some peoples eyes.

Will they be the eyes in the heads of people who've got it wrong?

all the best.markj

Don't you get bored, putting that on the end of every post?

And do you not worry about the fact that doing it makes you look a complete pillock?

 

[aboardepsilon]

ban all sheds .

yawn ..

I never argue

youre just wearing out your fingers and your brain .

very special all the best..and keep taking the tablets ..markj

 

[ban-all-sheds]

All I did in the first place was quote 411.3.1.2(iv) saying "Make of it what you will" because that was what aboardepsilon was asking about, he also wrote-

I think it's required to pass the rules and get a certificate ..this is a first time gas boiler installation.

which I, too, have recently heard.

Required by whom?

What rules?

What certificate?

And anyway, we still come back to the question I raised before - it's someone else who is installing the boiler, so why not let that someone else sacrifice a goat, or pray to the moon spirit, or engage in whatever superstitious practices are needed to pass the rules and get a certificate?

That's what he's being paid to do.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I recently attended a 17th edition update course where the lecturer made particular reference to the fact that (some?) scheme assessors were failing applicants because they had not main bonded the central heating.

Time wasn't available to elaborate on this and no instructions are given as to where this should be done (as the 600mm for gas) or whether the water and/or gas was supplied in plastic, for example, just that we should pay particular attention to this in future.

I got the impression that this was what the OP had in mind although he seemed not to be distinguishing between main and supplementary bonding.

As no one was mentioning the regulations I thought to enter them into the discussion but it seems to have lead to some misinterpretation and/or misreading of my posts. Perhaps I was not clear enough.

 

[aboardepsilon]

The gas pipe coming in from the street is plastic ..so what good would bonding within 600mm of it do ?

im just asking questions ..just because i have an interest in this ..

all the best.markj

 

[EFLImpudence]

That is the point.

If the water supply were also plastic then the Central Heating MAY require main bonding depending on where the pipes were routed.

 

[holmslaw]

..

 

[aboardepsilon]

Another thing that crosses my mind ..with me in the bath scenario ..and the immersion heater failing because its corroded through ..

Is........the RCD failing to trip because of accumulation of time and wear on it .

the bonding at the electricity main riser may be OK on the day its tested

same with the bonding on the incoming water pipe

but years later, copper can get the tarnish on it ..that stops conductivity the water main will sweat in the summer oir in the winter come to that with the difference in temperature. ..condensation will form on it turning it green...and the lead on the electricity mains riser can get black oxide on it .

do any of you spray any special conductive anti corrosive fluids or greases on these points.


all the best.markj

 

[holmslaw]

..