Earthing (formerly) double insulated metal pendant light

[stuz]

Hi,

I have bought a double insulated metal pendant light. When I removed the old 'rose' cover from the ceiling in the downstairs loo it was clear that all the connections present there would not fit in the new fitting.There are four twin and earth cables coming through the ceiling, the earths have all been wired to a connector block and then covered badly in insulation tape. There are 3 live and 2 switch live wires in a connecting block - I presume for the light switch, extractor fan and extractor isolating switch. This is where the previous light was connected with just live and neutral. All the remaining cables appear to be in a block covered in tape.

So given I will not be able to fit all of the above into my new rose, I removed the block, and sleeve etc which provides the 'double insulation' from the fitting to give me some more room. I was then intending to earth everything by connecting the earth block to the metal bracket in the ceiling which itself would be connected to the new rose via the two metal side screws.

Would this make a bad job even worse? Would this be safe?

This lighting circuit is currently off. The electrics have recently been tested and there was nothing found wrong with this circuit, which is in the 'new' part of the house, about 15 years old, compared to the rest of the house which is 150 years old.

The photos below show the newly butchered, formerly double insulated new light fitting, with live and neutral, no earth (obviously). And the other two photos are of the four cables coming through the ceiling.

Thanks for any advice (even if it's just get an electrician in!)

S

 

[ericmark]

You can get lighting junction boxes, so all cables would become one, or you could use a different ceiling rose, I used a plug in ceiling rose one so easy to connect the existing wires, and two so I did not have to connect it all up while holding it above the ground, also means I can unplug it and take it down to clean.

Mine was silver but it has the hook and chain, so not hung from the wire. see here for example it also means I can swap my chandeliers around if I want to.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Mine was silver but it has the hook and chain, so not hung from the wire. see here for example it also means I can swap my chandeliers around if I want to.

But of no use whatsoever for the OP's light!

@stuz do you have access to the ceiling space above? If so, the correct method would be to fit a lighting junction box up in the loft with the two wire cable coming into the new junction box.

 

[stuz]

@Taylortwocities Thanks for the reply - it's downstairs so no access to ceiling cavity - I did think about tidying it all up into a separate box and easing JB back though the hole in the ceiling - but my understanding is that's 'illegal' as it won't be fixed. I could put it all in a seperate box next to my new light fitting? That would be a bit ugly but I guess would work. What about the earthing question?

Thanks

Stuart

 

[Taylortwocities]

If you use the proper box it doesnt need to be fixed and wont be "illegal". The issue is strain relief for the cables.
Many purpose-made boxes such as Wago, QuickWire, QuickFix JB4, etc have all you need.

 

[ericmark]

But of no use whatsoever for the OP's light!

Not sure, can't see the light, just the cover which came with it. Mine also had a cover which came with the lamp, with a hook and chain.

As you say lighting junction boxes do come with cable clamps, but as it if you could get it through the hole where the cables come out, not so sure. Says Width - 50mm, Height - 120mm, Depth - 30mm so it would fit through a hole drilled for a down light, but the cover shown does not look big enough to cover a hole made to take that box.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Not sure, can't see the light

isnt it the first photo?

 

[RandomGrinch]

I use these:

Greenbrook Lighting Connector

A 3-pole 20A lighting connector for quick and efficient fitting of multiple downlights and lighting fixtures. With its simple lock-and-release system, it’s so easy to wire up and connect – and just as easy to disconnect when maintenance is required. Suitable for a wide variety of connecting...

www.toolstation.com

Your ceiling hole will need to be slightly bigger, but it is easy enough to push back through, out of the way.

 

[stuz]

Thanks all - I'll go about tidying up the existing connections and push through the box into the ceiling cavity. Any comments about the initial earthing query? Can I just take a wire from the bunch of earths coming from the celing and attach it to the metal fixture? This would earth the metal 'rose', but what about the light itself? Does that need any extra protection (as it's only connected to the rose via the unearthed cable which is now no longer double insulated).

 

[Taylortwocities]

No earth is required if your new light is double insulated. I guess the wires in your first picture used to have a connection box on the ends?

 

[stuz]

No earth is required if your new light is double insulated. I guess the wires in your first picture used to have a connection box on the ends?

Yes, a connection box and a rubber sheath wrapping the wires as they entered the box. I thought removing these would remove the double insulation, I have thus removed the sticker with the two squares.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Yes, the box is required to maintain the CLASS II status.
You are going to have to extend those wires anyway. Why not use the supplied box?

 

[stuz]

Yeah, now that I'm going to move everything else into the ceiling then I'll have room to put the box back. Didn't think of that! Thanks again.

 

[Taylortwocities]

No need to earth then!

 

[stuz]

No need to earth then!

Indeed - perhaps I should change the title of the thread!