Easy way to fix joists steady

[Dylan T]

Hi all - I’ve been building my first deck which I’ve previously asked a few questions about on here. Outer frame is all squared up and I’m up to hanging the bearers and joists. I’m not cross battening but just running 47x100 joists off main bearers from an outer frame. The newbie problem I’m having is that when I try to attach the joists the bearers by butting them and diagonally screwing them in they shift as the screws bite. I’m wondering if there’s a repeatable trick to help stop this happening as I have a lot of joists to hang! Any in depth video I find is for if I’m using hangers on every joist but I’m just using these hangers on the main bearers as per initial questions. (Note; I am using an impact still and don’t own a nail gun unfortunately). I’m also using these screws, which seem big especially the head but were recommended on here. Should perhaps be using nails instead?
https://www.screwfix.com/p/goldscre...k-multipurpose-screws-6-x-80mm-100-pack/15878

thanks!

 

[John D v2.0]

yeah it's a pain and it's because the thread is biting into the first timber as it tries to drill into the second piece, which is inevitably slower than the thread can jack the first piece up, and also with a sideways force component.
My usual way around it especially if it's important (e.g. stud against a door lining) is to predrill a clearance hole through the first timber (joist in your case) and slightly into the second. And make sure it's tight up together and plenty of pressure on the back of the driver.
You can also clamp or screw a block behind the joist to keep it in place temporarily.

I would also be interested in other techniques/ideas on this though.

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Pilot hole in the joist is a good call. If you can get at both sides of the bearer, couple of speedclamps- block clamped to bearer, joist clamped to block, fix. If you can't get at the outside of the bearer screw your block to it, clamp the joist, fix, remove block. A bit of ply fixed to the bottom of the block (big enough to bear on underside of bearer and joist) makes the job a lot easier

 

[Dylan T]

Thanks all I’ll give these a try this afternoon. Is it still a good shout to be using screw over nails? I see arguments for both but basically It seems screws have more holding power while nails handle flex better. Most advice is American so curious what’s done here when no nail gun is used (as it seems the ultimate is twist nails being fired with one)

 

[catlad]

5" galinised nails straight through your principle beam into your joists, no need for hangars. Youtube Larry haun building timber framed houses.

 

[Dylan T]

5" galinised nails straight through your principle beam into your joists, no need for hangars. Youtube Larry haun building timber framed houses.

Thanks - makes it look so easy! I don't have access to other side of joist in some occasions where space is tight or it's a ledger, so would be toe-nailing. Assume this is still applicable?

 

[^woody^]

Use clamps!

 

[Dylan T]

Use clamps!

Yup, clamps seem a go-er. I'm just at the start of the process and wanted to make the best system out of it as lots to do. Seemed like the kind of thing where im adding clamps that someone would look at me and say... why the hell are you doing that.. but nice to know it's often done. Annoying thing is looking on youtube just always brings back people using a nailgun who make it so look so quick, so its hard to view a comparative process. Big thing for me at the moment is choosing between screws and nails; nails seems easier as no pre-drilling or biting movement, but concerned about strength. The heads of those screws I have are huge too, and when tightening up have already split the timber once, even when pre-drilled.

 

[^woody^]

Screw or nails skew-fixed are not really load bearing anyway. OK for noggins or the general fixing, but not for things like supporting joists where the joint is loaded.

Typically, nails are more ductile so under heavy loads and movement they can bend with movement of a timber frame, whereas screws (which are hardened) can snap. That's the science and the principle, but for domestic work either will be sufficient.

For ultimate accuracy use a clamp, even proper carpenters do and should.

The best fixings for decking IMO are the Turbocoach screws from Screwfix. Not stainless, but will last as long as the deck and as great to use.

 

[Dylan T]

*deleted*

 

[Dylan T]

Screw or nails skew-fixed are not really load bearing anyway. OK for noggins or the general fixing, but not for things like supporting joists where the joint is loaded.

Typically, nails are more ductile so under heavy loads and movement they can bend with movement of a timber frame, whereas screws (which are hardened) can snap. That's the science and the principle, but for domestic work either will be sufficient.

For ultimate accuracy use a clamp, even proper carpenters do and should.

The best fixings for decking IMO are the Turbocoach screws from Screwfix. Not stainless, but will last as long as the deck and as great to use.

Thanks @woody - I might head down and get some various fixings and see what i like using the best before i commit to a system for the entire deck; will lend up buying stuff i don't need but that's all part of it and will go into my kit. Yes those coach screws are great I've actually got them for my posts. I read somewhere they were as strong as coach bolts, and arguably have more sheer strength and so far so good. (And super satisfying driving them in). Only thing you've mentioned is that skew-fixed isn't ok for supporting joists, but that's exactly what i'm doing. Are you saying I should be using hangers?

 

[^woody^]

Skew fixing can cause the timber the split as you may already know, and it can just actually fix a tiny part of the timber (allowing future movement), so needs care. So strictly its not a correct way to form a joint that will have a load put on it, but in context of a deck if done correctly with suitable fixings it may be OK. But it's important to be aware of the limitations.

Its best to design the frame so that the joists bear onto other timbers not fixed to the sides of them. Sometimes that's not feasible

 

[Dylan T]

An update; I tried nails but I clearly don't have the skill to hold the nail, the hammer and the joint steady without a lot of fumbling, and the clamp is never strong enough to not budge with the hammer hits. I also tried piloting but still had the problem when the head of the screw bit in. So I've gone for drilling a wood stop up against the side of the joist and screwing from one side, then repeating it to the other. Then I add a hanger in if that joist is a main supporting joist that has others coming off it. It's surely a slow way to do it, but i'm no pro and it's working. Have tested and it's rock solid, so that's a win. Only concern if every hole is creating an opportunity for water ingress, but I can always run decking tape over the sides too.