Electric Boilers

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Hi

I bought a flat which had a brand new central heating with new gas boiler.
After we moved in my plumber came round to check the system before switching it on. To our horror we found one major problem, no gas !! They had never connected it !
The flat is in a converted house, there are 3 other flats all with gas.
I thought it would be a simple connection to the existing supply but the gas people wont add another meter to the pipes, need a brand new supply. So after getting a quote from the gas people it looks like a £1500 job. We decided to bite the bullet but now the freeholder is kicking off and demanding money for a survey which really doesn't need doing and I think he's going to insist on using his plumber for any work outside (and charging stupid money!).

So I'm looking at electric boilers
The flat has 4 rads, kitchen and bathroom sink and bath. I don't have a water tank.
I know nothing about these boilers and my plumber has never fitted one but seems to think it will be easy, my electrician can do the wiring.

Can anyone recommend a reasonable priced boiler that will do the job. Only one I've looked into is the Redring PSA12 Powerstream Ascari C/Heating & Hot Water Flow Boiler but will this work without a storage tank (do any electric ones work without one ?) . Any others ?
any advise would be gratefully accepted !

hope this makes sense ! sorry

 

[SimonH2]

And you didn't check to see if the heating worked before you bought the flat ?

How was it described ? Did your conveyancer not check any details like this ?

It would sound, from what you have said, that it was sold as having gas central heating. That was clearly an outright lie, so you ought to be able to claim at least part of the costs back from the vendor.

As to the freeholder, it is common in leaseholds for there to be certain rights - a common one being the right to run services. So check the leasehold carefully, and check what easements there are. It would be unusual (I would have thought, but IANAL) if there wasn't a right to run services, and if there is such a right, then your freeholder can't stop you doing it - but they can insist on acceptable reinstatement (eg of dug up ground/paths).

I think in the first instance (sorry, make that second after reading your leasehold*) go back to your conveyancing solicitor and tell them you "aren't happy". But do it quick, I believe there may be some very short time limits (2 weeks ?) on reporting of defects after buying a property.

* Which you should have done before buying, but it's too late now to worry about what you didn't read beforehand.

 

[SimonH2]

Sorry, forgot about the actual question ...

Without a storage cylinder (since you mention it, I assume the gas boiler is a combi), you will get very limited hot water flow from any electric boiler (on a domestic supply anyway). A typical combi starts in the high 20s kW output - so say 30 kW and upwards.
Your domestic electric supply will only go up to (perhaps) 15-20kW, and the one you mention is only 13kW max. That's not going to give you enough hot water flow rate for other than a fairly modest shower unless you can "store up" the heat. The manual for that unit specifically recommends a separate direct electric cylinder for hot water - ie the hot water is a completely separate system with it's own electric heater.

Of course, if you do go with a separate cylinder, then you don't need that large a boiler capacity.

 

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Thanks Simon

The flat was a repo and we got very little info (bought as seen), obviously got it for a very good price but the place was a mess. School boy error on not checking before but too late now ! They usually say Central heating (not tested) anyway to cover them selfs.
Everything is sorted now except the hot water and heating.

The freeholder is not stopping me doing the work but can insist on any work on the outside being done buy whoever they choose. The prices they are suggesting are stupid which is why I'm thinking electric.

I have and electric shower so no problem with that so only need hot water to 3 taps and the CH. Is there anything out there that will do it without a separate cylinder as I have nowhere to put it !
Could I get away with that boiler, selling the flat on.
cheers

 

[big-all]

regardless off the ins and outs off the situation your heating supplied by electric will cost around 3 times the price over gas for the same kwh
in other words gas will cost 4-5p per kw but electric will cost 12-16p per unit
so may be cheaper to bite the bulit
although the costs should be reasonable from the freeholder

 

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thanks, yeah know the prices are a lot more but if I wait for the freeholder it could take months to sort out and loads of money, going to need about 60m of copper to connect plus £600 for putting in the new supply, then my plumbers costs and freeholders costs. I want to sell the flat but can without without hot water or heating. The longer I wait the more money I'm spending on other bills like council tax ect so need a quick solution.
From research if I switch to economy 10 tariff it would bring down the prices (still higher than gas).

It looks like I might have to put in a small tank (not sure where!) and maybe use the boiler I mentioned just for heating unless there is something out there that can power 3 hot taps and 4 rads (surely there is something available)
cheers

 

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ps
if I go electric I have a brand new gas boiler that has never been used, need a new boiler in my house so can off set the cost of a new boiler against that.

what about this system, can't see a seperate tank mentioned ?
http://www.electricalcounter.co.uk/...mbi+Boiler+2Kw+-+15kW++Digital+Mod/2669939879

 

[londonboy]

I would not go for an Electric system.

Cant see how the freeholder can insist on using their guys, as I thought only the gas company could fit a gas meter a pipework.

 

[SimonH2]

That's a good one londonboy - the freeholder can't insist on using "his" guys as only the gas network people can do the pipework up to the meter. But I'm surprised the freeholder can impose such a condition anyway - I'd be having a read of the leasehold, and if it doesn't say that then there could be an element of "just do it" and it's fait accompli.

As to the combi boiler linked to, it will barely run a shower (it's only 15kW). It'll run a shower, but only if you keep the flow rate down and don't turn a tap on. Forget about running a bath, it'll be cold before it's finished filling !

 

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the gas company will only dig up the road and run the pipe to the meter. Another problem is the meter has to be attached to the front of the house in basement flats front garden. The people that own the basement are not keen (probably be able to get agreement if I offer some money!). Then the pipe needs to be run up the front of the building and into my flat which is on the 2nd floor. Any work on the outside of the property has to have the agreement of the freeholder (who are complete money taking thieves!) and they are entitled to insist on doing the outside work them self's ! or using their people. NExt thing you know i've got a whacking great bill from one of their mates and they split the money. All the internal work can be done by who ever I want.
So you can see why the electric boiler would be better.
2 Estate agents have told me it's much less of an issue these days, lots of new builds and conversions dont have gas and use electric boilers and sell fine.
Been reading up on the Elnur Gabarron CMX15 and has some good feedback so might have to go for that. Economy 10 seems to be the best plan and not too much more a year. Not much choice in this area.
cheers

 

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I dont need to run shower, got electric, will only be 3 hot taps and heating in the winter. Surely this can do that ?

On another forum a plumber said he fitted one of these and said in had three bedrooms, bathroom, utility, kitchen, dining room, living room and cloakroom all with radiators. Bathroom had bath and thermostatic mixer over it. No problems with heating or hot water. Wired it at 9kw. Need to speak with my plumber !! confused or what !
cheers

 

[big-all]

you need to be very careful here if you are trying to sell you may restrict your market to first time buyers who haven't a clue how expensive electric heating is to run
with others discounting the price for the cost and inconvenience to fit gas central heating meaning you may loose far more than say a couple off grand extra

why not ask several estate agents for there advice

 

[londonboy]

Ah it makes sense now (I'm guessing Victorian conversion?!)

You also need to get an Electrician involved, to ensure your electricity supply will be able to feed a large load like this.

You almost certainly won't be able to use the shower and have the boiler on at the same time (the boiler manufacturers make a switch which turns off the shower when the boilers running).

 

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thanks guys

yeah my electrician said he would upgrade me so it can handle it. Thunk he said something about 100amps ! sorry can't remember.

I've asked a couple of estate agents and they said it wont stop the flat selling, one said that a lot of people would rather have a brand new electric boiler with a 5 year guarantee than a smelly old boiler that they might have to replace. The extra cost on electric would be less than a new boiler over quite a few years. And if they went solar then no fuel cost in the future.
Economy 10 charges don't look too bad either.
I'm going to leave it to my plumber and electrician !
cheers

 

[big-all]

you will be limiting your market in mho

solar wont give you free heating it will only ever provide about 10-20% and thats during the summer