Electric to outdoor utility room

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I am planning on building an outdoor utility room out of timber and would like to put the following in it:
- couple of lights
- fridge freezer
- tumble dryer
- washing machine

Not all will be running at the same time. I can fit a shed Consumer Unit to keep things tidy.

My question relates to the supply. My only easy option is to take a spur from an existing Ring socket (32 amp MCB with RCD and using 2.5mm T&E). I could punch out of the house into a box and then gland an SWA which runs through to the utility room and is glanded there before it terminates into the Consumer Unit.

I am concerned that this may be undersized but anything else will require me to pull up ceilings in the house to get a new circuit from the board. Thanks in advance.
 
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I‘d recommend using 4 mm2 rather than 2.5. Have you considered heat to prevent freezing?
 
I‘d recommend using 4 mm2 rather than 2.5. Have you considered heat to prevent freezing?
The 2.5mm cable I was referring to was for the existing Ring Circuit in the house. I can take my supply in 4mm SWA if that's what you suggest?
I thought you were going to say that this was woefully inadequate and I really need a new circuit from the CU in the house. That's promising.

On heating, I was going to insulate the room and have a set of sockets should heat be required.
 
On heating, I was going to insulate the room and have a set of sockets should heat be required.
It's not just a question of making it 'comfortable' for anyone going into the room. Most fridges and freezers have a problem if temp falls to very low levels, so you'd have to look very carefully to try to find one which claimed to be 'suitable for use in an outbuilding' (I don't think there are many - most say that they are not suitable) or suffer significant costs keeping the new room heated to some extent, 24/7, for appreciable periods in the Winter!
 
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Tumble dryer and washing machine can have huge diffrences in power requirements. My heat pump tumble dryer used 600 watt, but many can use upto 3 kW. The hot/cold fill may again only used 500 watt, but most cold only fill are getting towards the 3 kW mark.

A freezer may only draw 200 watt when it goes into defrost cycle, with an inverter drive, but many draw 1 kW on start up.

So one may get away with 3 kW supply, or 13 amp fuse and a FCU, but more likely you will need over a 20 amp supply which is not going to come from a ring final.
 
Is an out building classed as an appliance? "The load current in any part of the circuit should be unlikely to exceed for long periods the current-carrying capacity of the cable (Regulation 433.1.5 refers). This can generally be achieved by:
(i) locating socket-outlets to provide reasonable sharing of the load around the ring
(ii) not supplying immersion heaters, comprehensive electric space heating or loads of a similar profile from the ring circuit
(iii) connecting cookers, ovens and hobs with a rated power exceeding 2 kW on their own dedicated radial circuit
(iv) taking account of the total floor area being served. (Historically, limit of 100 m² has been adopted.)"

If classing the outbuilding as an appliance then max is 2 kW (ii), unless the connection is near centre of the ring final (i), there are many considerations, one is if warm enough for the freezer planning on being used, I have not worked out fully why some freezers need it to be warm, I can see how a frost free needs to be warm enough not to freezer the defrost outlet, but also seen chest freezers with limits as to how cold room can be.

The second is the load with washer and dryer, the whole point in having a separate washer and dryer is so they can be run at the same time, I will admit I do carefully watch the load with washer and dryer as want them to be solar powered, so washer goes on, wait for water heating to complete, then the dryer goes on. So always within what the solar and battery can provide, often set a delay timer so they don't run together. However when doing that may as well have a washer/dryer so don't need to use a delay timer. Or inspect to see when one can switch the other on. However the 600 watt load from the dryer even with the 2.4 kW load from washer are still just within the 3 kW limit.

Washing machines and tumble dryers seem to have peaked at what they use, I remember the twin tub, and the Bendix which had to be bolted to the floor, both often had the option of hot fill, so the power requirement was low, and with the twin tub nothing else could really be done on washing day, it was dragged into centre of kitchen, and no room to do any cooking. But the front loader started to have weights instead of bolting it down, and we for some reason lost the hot/cold fill, so the power used went up. Again the vented dryer often had the option of one or two elements, so user could select 1.2 kW or 2.4 kW and drying time of 90 minutes or 160 minutes and I know we used the lower setting, but when the condenser dryer came in, often that option was lost, and with the heat pump condenser dryer one only has the one setting, even if only 650 watt.

One tends to look at ones own house, and forget other will not do the same, since for me to go into back garden means going down a set of steps and then whole garden at a slope, no way do I want to carry clothes outside to wash them. Or for that matter dry them, front garden no better. But first house the car port was ideal for drying clothes, it got the wind, but no rain. I also had what wife called the flag pole, with a line which could be pulled up the pole. Worked well, but after all the negative comments was not doing that again.

I did use the garage in mothers house as a utility room, however it was not well sealed, so spiders etc, resulted in not really wanting washing in there.
 
It's not just a question of making it 'comfortable' for anyone going into the room. Most fridges and freezers have a problem if temp falls to very low levels, so you'd have to look very carefully to try to find one which claimed to be 'suitable for use in an outbuilding' (I don't think there are many - most say that they are not suitable) or suffer significant costs keeping the new room heated to some extent, 24/7, for appreciable periods in the Winter!
My understanding is that fridge-freezers tend to be especially problematic, because most of them rely on one refridgeration circuit for both the fridge and the freezer portions. Seperate fridges and freezers are much less likely to have issues.
 
My understanding is that fridge-freezers tend to be especially problematic, because most of them rely on one refridgeration circuit for both the fridge and the freezer portions. Seperate fridges and freezers are much less likely to have issues.
Maybe - I don't know.

Having just had a quick look at the Argos website, of the products which make a statement about this (one way or the other), only 2 out of 43 (about 5%) 'pure' fridges say that they are suitable for outbuildings, the other 41 (95%) saying that they are not suitable. However, the situation is 'better' for freezers, with 24/58 (about 41%) saying that they are suitable for outbuildings.
 
As long as the cable run is not hugely long, 2.5 should be OK.

I would not bother with a CU. You are limited to 13A anyway, so I would put a DP switched fused connection unit in the shed, feeding your sockets and another SFCU at 3/5A for lighting.

But everything will be limited by the 13A fuse on the end of the spur that you take off the ring final.
 
I would not bother with a CU. You are limited to 13A anyway, so I would ....
I think you're the third person who has mentioned this but, unless I've missed it, I don't think that the OP has ever told us that what he intends is a fused spur, has he?

If it were an unfused spur from a 32A ring, then the cable obviously would have to be at least 4mm².

Kind Regards, John
 
Yes. Because he said he was using 2.5.
spurs off rings are traditionally run in 2.5 T& E and usually quite acceptable, only the 30A fuse or 309/32A MCB (or RCBO), that`s why I questioned the 13A figure .
Unless you think by "Spur" the OP does not actually mean ,solely, a spur but a fused spur, traditionally with a switched or unswitched Fused Connection Unit that is often mistakenly referred to as a "Spur".

A spur is often run off a ring or a radial, often it effectively a smaller cable - 1 x 2.5 spur fed from a 2 x 2.5 cable with a ring and say 2.5 spur fed by 4mm radial (although it might be called a spur if you are feeding several 2.5s off a single 2.5 too.
Think of railway tracks.
The problem is, because a spur (the wiring) is often involved with a Fused Connection Unit then it is not uncommon for folk to name the FCU as a "spur" which can mislead.
"Ring Main" is another bad term that is best avoiding , Ring Final usually (A Ring Main is something else).
"Live" when you actually mean Line is another badly used term - N is still Live by definition because it is intended to carry current as part of its intended function.
Even a PEN (CNE) conductor is actually a Live conductor but usually (By convention) not called Live.

I could go on and on about other terms too but suffice it to say it`s best if we all use the proper terms where possible to prevent any misunderstandings.
It happens in all trades "A plasterers Float", Condenser/Capacitor in Cars etc etc etc
 
Yes. Because he said he was using 2.5.
That's surely a very dangerous assumption, isn't it?

He may have said that because he erroneously thought that 2.5mm² cable was adequate for an unfused spur (supplying multipole things), mightn't he?

One of the important functions of a forum like this is to notice and correct such erroneous beliefs, isn't it?
 

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