Electrical Test

Joined
17 Jan 2006
Messages
2,439
Reaction score
3
Location
Kent
Country
United Kingdom
I know you all like a challenge so here's one for you all.

We were called out last year by one of those companies who act on behalf of insurance companies.

According to the girl on the phone the reported fault was an RCD tripping. When I called the client the lady of the house said the RCD had been tripping intermittently all day.

The insurance company had already sent out one NIC (very relevant) contractor who said they had found the fault and isolated the circuit pending approval to re-wire it. However, the RCD tripped twice after the guy had left so the client called them back. They said they could not get back for a few days so we ended up getting smooth talked into taking the job.

The property was a very nice 6 bedroom house at the end of a single track private road. It had been fully re-furbished and re-wired by the previous owner 5-6 years ago.

The electrical installation was TT and the wiring was T&E. The CU was an 8 way 3 phase MG disboard linked out for single phase.

There was an AMF panel above the cut-out with a 50kVA set located behind the house. The complete installation was protected by a 100mA RCD which seemed odd given the standard of the install.

When the dis board cover was removed there was a neutral out of the bar which had been taped up. It fed the outside lights which is where the other chap said he found the fault. Before going any further our engineer had a quick flick around the board with a volt stick and discovered that the polarity was reversed feeding the DB. after some investigation it turned out there had been a fault in the AMF panel and the generator guy had removed the contactors some 6 months previous. When he put the cables into terminals to by-pass the contactors he reversed the polarity.

After re-wiring it our engineer started to do some testing. As it was an RCD fault the first test was IR. Below are the results.

Bearing in the mind the cabling was only 5-6 years old does anyone fancy going to the top of the class by guessing what had happened?




File0018.jpg
 
Sponsored Links
Circuit 4 looks screwy but it may just be cos something's on the circuit (phase to neutral)

As its TT where does the 30mA RCD split the board ? Could be neutral on one side of the 30mA RCD put into the other Neutral busbar?

Go on, its Friday, what's the answer?????
 
Got to be something like a N to E fault that was then turned into a L to E fault by genny guy.........a nice amount of current causing some rather tasty degrading to the cables.....not 100% sure.
 
Sponsored Links
Just a quick question on the IR results:

Where you have got 0, I'm guessing you do mean as close to zero as you can get as opposed to "n/a" (i.e. no circuit connected), and you have only two columns filled in, did you do phase+neutral to earth, and then between phase and neutral, instead of the three test way?


Now onto going somewhere...

This generator panel that was bypassed...what had been done exactly? I'm assuming it wasn't trying to feed the generator from the grid, for obvious reasons, but were both current carring conductors open, or just one?
 
Adam_151 said:
Just a quick question on the IR results:

Where you have got 0, I'm guessing you do mean as close to zero as you can get as opposed to "n/a" (i.e. no circuit connected), and you have only two columns filled in, did you do phase+neutral to earth, and then between phase and neutral, instead of the three test way?

Thats right, they were as good as zero.

We tested L-N & L-E only. If you compare the L-N & L-E results you will see they are almost the same...there's a clue.

The contactors in the AMF panel were remove some 6 months before this fault. After probing the lady of house (now now :LOL:) it turned out the contactors had failed for the same reason but played no part in our problem.

Lectrician said:
a nice amount of current causing some rather tasty degrading to the cables.....not 100% sure.
You're way too smart for this game. Go and have a pint :LOL:
 
I was thinking along the lines of the generator neutral being permantly connected to the neutral of the house, and the generator neutral being staked down through a rather poor earth rod at the point where it branches for earth, all fine except reverse it and you have phase connected to a rather poor earth rod (and if it becomes slightly less poor when it rains... :) )
 
I was called to a fault in a flat once where the lighting circuit MCB kept blowing.

I meggared the circuit and found it flat down all ways.

Everytime I spilt the circuit, the fault was each way.

I had kept the earth connected when I split - I always do - split L and N, leave the earth.

I disconnected one length completely from rose - and noticed a small spark. Got me thinking.

No loft etc to look at the cables, but I managed to pull a length from one rose to another out. It was badly deformed, melted etc.

I replaced this length, as I had pulled a new length through. When I made the final connection, I expected the earth to earth spark, and it did happen. Clamp the earth and found around 8 amp on it.

I knew the flat was part of the house below, and new the installation must have been split at some point.

I walked outside, looked up the pole which fed the service to the house, and a seperate one to the flat......and saw the neutral hanging in the air!

Turned out that the lighting circuit was split from the houses, but still shared a common earth connection via some TV boosets and aerial cable.

The 8 amp load was the houses total load during the day.......would have been near 80 amp with the storage rads at night!!! all on a piece of 1mm earth!!!






I like faults like this.

Put us out of our missery!
 
We had our NIC audit this week which is why this test sheet was out of the file.

As he is always quizzing us I though I would tun the tables for a change.

I gave him the test sheet and asked him what could cause these newish cables to breakdown as they've done.

He didn't work it out but I know one of you will


a nice amount of current causing some rather tasty degrading to the cables. 2/3 of the way there
 
following on from lec's subject of interesting faults, but on a slightly different topic:

A few years ao when I played with electronics a bit more than I do now, I was hooking a microcontroller up to the parralel port on a computer, I'd done this several times before without issue, but one time I'd got the stuff out and connetced up, hit the switch on the bench psu and the volt display instantly went to zero. Disconnected load and tried it again, still zero, multimeter on, yeah it is actually zero, found a fuse had blown on the PSU, this was qite odd considering it was equipped with current limiting ,etc [you couldn't blow the fuse even if you dropped a metal link across the output terminals!] anyway replaced it and tried it again, had psu on, connected ground, it sparked and the meter cleared again.

tracked the problem doen to the fact that the computer and breadboard grounds were connected together and the computer had its ground connected to mains earth, the problem came when where the cables in the bench psu had chaffed where they ran through a hole to the components on heatsinks on the back, a possitive before the current limiting circuitry had shorted to mains earth...
 
The results being similar for phase->cpc and phase->neutral would seem to suggest some sort of earth->neutral interconnection, but seems to vary quite a bit, I'm thinking along the lines that for whatever reason the incomming neutral wasn't opened for that test? (or am I barking up the wrong tree?)
 
Not a rodent infestation?
Water in outside lights?
Horse eaten cables?
Lightening strike?
Act of god?
 

DIYnot Local

Staff member

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.


Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

 
Sponsored Links
Back
Top