Electrics setup all strange after electrician has been out. Riddle inside (stiff drink needed)...

[ban-all-sheds]

Discussing what is or is not reasonable with you is pointless, given your ridiculous claim that it's illegal to do something as trivial as omit a piece of earth sleeving,

It is the fact that it is so trivial which makes it impossible for it to be reasonable to omit it.

and given that you conveniently try to use BS7671 as a definition of what constitutes "reasonable provision for safety" when it matches your opinion but happily tell people to ignore it when that suits your opinion

************ (text removed)

For form's sake I will ask you to provide proof of where I have told people to ignore safety provisions, even though I know that you will not.

and also that you change your interpretation of "reasonable provision for safety" from relative to absolute and back again to suit your particular argument.

And I've done that where?

So let's not get everybody rushing out to buy more popcorn......

A better way would be for you to stop doing the following:

Encouraging people to adopt the practice of seeking to do the minimum they can possibly get away with rather than doing the best job they can.

Claiming that there is no reason to accept that things change.

Claiming that because something existing does not have to be scrapped that means it can still be made.

Claiming that ignoring a safety requirement which has been in place for several years is a reasonable thing to do.​

Because I promise you - I will never, ever, EVER let you get away with it.

 

[DaveHerns]

I wonder if Mr Clueless has sorted his wiring yet ?

 

[Echo the husky]

I don't know, but it'd be interesting to hear what the faults were.

 

[PBC_1966]

It is the fact that it is so trivial which makes it impossible for it to be reasonable to omit it.

And its omission impacts on the safety of the installation how, exactly?

and given that you conveniently try to use BS7671 as a definition of what constitutes "reasonable provision for safety" when it matches your opinion but happily tell people to ignore it when that suits your opinion

************ (text removed)

For form's sake I will ask you to provide proof of where I have told people to ignore safety provisions, even though I know that you will not.

Please read what I wrote again. I didn't say you have told people to ignore safety provisions; I said you have told people to ignore specific provisions of BS7671.

and also that you change your interpretation of "reasonable provision for safety" from relative to absolute and back again to suit your particular argument.

And I've done that where?

In the whole business about 10mA vs. 30mA vs. 100mA vs. no RCD protection.

 

[PBC_1966]

I don't know, but it'd be interesting to hear what the faults were.

My bet would still be on a cross-connection between the lighting circuits at a 2-gang switch.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Please read what I wrote again. I didn't say you have told people to ignore safety provisions; I said you have told people to ignore specific provisions of BS7671.

Actual provisions? Or meaningless collections of undefined or impossible terms which cannot be regarded as provisions because they simply don't work?

But in any event, even if what you said were true, I don't see what the problem is, as I've never claimed that people must comply with BS 7671 in its entirety, only that it is unreasonable to refuse to implement a specific requirement which is of a vital safety nature.

In the whole business about 10mA vs. 30mA vs. 100mA vs. no RCD protection.

Ah - you've decided to have a go with that nonsense again. Dream on.

 

[PBC_1966]

Actual provisions?

Yes - Use of new vs. old colors for one. Although you'll claim that's somehow a "special" case.

only that it is unreasonable to refuse to implement a specific requirement which is of a vital safety nature.

Like a couple of inches of green/yellow sleeving on an earth wire at a socket? For the second time, please explain how you think that's a requirement of a vital safety nature.

In the whole business about 10mA vs. 30mA vs. 100mA vs. no RCD protection.

Ah - you've decided to have a go with that nonsense again. Dream on.

What is nonsense about questioning why you think that your argument about the relative increase in safety between 100 & 30mA RCD protection should not apply equally to 30 vs. 10mA protection? You can't have it both ways.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Yes - Use of new vs. old colors for one. Although you'll claim that's somehow a "special" case.

Please explain how that conflicts with saying that deliberately refusing to implement a vital safety feature is unlawful.

Feel free to be rational and logical.

Like a couple of inches of green/yellow sleeving on an earth wire at a socket? For the second time, please explain how you think that's a requirement of a vital safety nature.

Did you read the part where I commented on how trivially easy it is to use sleeving? Feel free to put forward a rational and logical explanation of why it is reasonable to not use it.

What is nonsense about questioning why you think that your argument about the relative increase in safety between 100 & 30mA RCD protection should not apply equally to 30 vs. 10mA protection? You can't have it both ways.

I don't want it both ways.

30mA is what is officially regarded as required, not 10mA.

If I were to argue that not using 10mA RCD protection was unlawful, would your objections fade away, and would you agree with me? Or are you arguing, not against what I say, but against me personally on an ad hominem basis?

 

[PBC_1966]

Nope - Everybody's had their fill of popcorn by now.

 

[Mr. Clueless]

I wonder if Mr Clueless has sorted his wiring yet ?

I'll let you know after tomorrow (hopefully) as they are SUPPOSED to be out then.

The boss of the one who did the work i believe will be the one coming out tomorrow & not the one who did it. That's the impression i was given.

I'd hate to be the guy crawling around under that floor because that floor is NOT coming up! I don't care what is said!

The builder came back after talking with the sparky boss & said sparky boss reckons the electrician who did the job has just wired the 2 circuits in to the same junction box, or something to that effect anyway. I'm pretty sure that's what he said.

But we shall see. Hopefully this time tomorrow i will have working electrics & a working burglar alarm.

And some RCD thingy-ma-jing too.

 

[securespark]

Excellent!

I wait with bated breath...

 

[Echo the husky]

It's 2AM go to bed!

 

[DaveHerns]

Anyone else in favour of PBC and BAS taking their argument elsewhere ? Or both being blocked from seeing the other's posts?

 

[securespark]

It's 2AM go to bed!

Still waiting with bated breath [yawn]

 

[Mr. Clueless]

Well bit of a strange one....

Wife started playing with the fuses & light switches with the purpose that she could get it right in her head to explain to the electrician what was going on. The thing is....
...it was working...as it should.

Then the burglar alarm lit up, as did the sensors & then it started sounding. So she put in the code & then the outside started sounding i think she said. She was able to knock it off.

But then she heard a bang/pop & started smelling smoke. Story short - the smoke was coming from the burglar alarm control panel.


...FFWD to the electrician (boss) coming out....

He went through everything & determined that his employee had not caused the fault. He went through it with my wife & explained his employee couldn't have caused it because there's no wiring for the light circuit under the floorboards, only wiring for the sockets.

He went through trying to fix it & they thought they'd cracked it until they flicked a switch & found it was operating other lights also.

Apparently he had all light switches & light units off/out & one in particular he said looked like a cowboy/DIY job - one that would've been put in with the extension that was built. Something wasn't quite right with it.

He ran out of time on the job because apparently he was only out to determine whether it was something his employee had done or not so said we would need to arrange a date & time he could come out & do some fault finding to get it fixed.

Oh, he put a new fuse in to the burglar alarm control panel (the main fuse) & it popped it immediately. The lights & everything had gone off, but he proved to my wife it was still getting power by doing some test on it. He said we need to get the alarm guy out to take a look. Some issue to do with the circuit board - it had blown a fuse on that also.

So in short i think he's saying the cause is perhaps somewhere between this dodgy light switch as part of the extension & the burglar alarm control panel.

Sorry for a disjointed lack of depth explanation as i've only just woke up after the mother of all migraines. I just wanted to update the thread on what's happened.