It's all the midget's fault.
Anyone trying to blame the opposite party is climbing mirrors.
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- Thread starter kez1
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Anyone trying to blame the opposite party is climbing mirrors.
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"The midget"?
None of this is political. It's just how ICE cars work, and their effect on the environment. What we could get away with, when there weren't many of them, and they didn't travel very far, (and air quality was pants for other reasons anyway), we can't really get away with now. Yes, there have been failures of regulation, and there have been manufacturers whose behaviour has varied between "sharp" and "outright cheating". We can't change the past, we just have to deal with it as best we can and move on.
By making the working class poorer and the midget & friends richer.
Great way forward...
I've still no idea who you're talking about, but you seem to feel "entitled" to carry on puking our crap air for other people to breathe (rich or poor)?
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Do you seriously think that the biggest problem on the planet today is my car in which I travel 3000 miles a year and maintain to factory standard?
Ever heard of plastic pollution?
If your beloved friends of the planet really cared about the planet and our health, they would stop production and usage of any unnecessary plastic, first of all plastic bottles for fizzy drinks.
But then they would go against the plastic giants and lose money.
So, let's attack the working class trying to earn a crust.
Think about this: everything that should be good for us makes us poorer, everything.
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Yes.
Statistics talk for themselves.
Rich people who live in affluent areas live better and longer (and drive more polluting cars)
Please don't come up with "my billionaire neighbour died at 40.
Average...
Look up this word on google.
Everyone says that. When smoking was banned in public places, it was a common excuse - "oh do you think me having just one fag will make a difference"? It's the same excuse that one might use when peeing in the public swimming pool, in fact - "just one won't make a difference"...
Of course, it isn't "just one", is it? So what you're really saying, is that you are somehow "special" and should be allowed to carry on doing what everyone else is being encouraged not to.
...and then we get the classic deflection tactic - "well what about XXXXXXX?" (insert activity that you regard yourself as doing very well at). Yes, I'm all for reducing plastic waste. I just didn't realise this was an 'either / or' thing? Right now, about 30,000 people a year in the UK are dying prematurely from poor air quality. How many are dying from plastic pollution? If we have to choose, I think we need to tackle the most pressing problems first, don't you?
Yes, that would be a tough fight. They won't want to lose all that business, will they? Fortunately the oil giants are weak, and poorly resourced so they won't put up the same kind of fi...
...oh... hang on...
How about we just attack the polluters? Rich or poor. It makes no difference to me. Of course, there might be some who want to turn it into some kind of culture war...
Yeah - and everything I like makes me fat... Sorry, but sometimes, life involves making tough choices! Oddly, though, cars are quite expensive to operate, in the great scheme of things. It would be deeply unpleasant, and I wouldn't be able to enjoy the lifestyle that I currently do, but I probably would be fitter and richer if I didn't have a car. Now I'm not about to - I'm just not that altruistic, so I'm trying to do the next best thing, and minimise the damage my car creates. Why is that bad?
Where the hell did you read this???
How many death are certified because of poor air quality?
There's been 1 in London in the past 10 years.
No, no, no.
That's not true.
Everybody knew that smoking indoors was a bad thing to do for your lungs and your clothes.
I and many others I know, were happy to move our smoking outside and not end up with smelly clothes.
You haven't explained why people in affluent areas, driving high polluting cars, have a longer life expectancy.
Making people poorer will kill them earlier than a Fiat panda euro 3.
The rich will just carry on getting richer, the poor will just carry on getting poorer and whichever nearer you are to to one or the other will apply to you, it ain't brain surgery Avocet.
Avocet is probably one of the rich changing car every year and drinking fine wines for a living.
No concerns to them.
Doctors say 40,000 deaths a year linked to air pollution
A landmark report from the RCP and the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health sets out the dangerous impact air pollution is having on the UK's health.
Thousands of needless air pollution deaths as UK government ignores health experts
Our government must be doing all it can to keep our exposure to air pollution as low as possible
UK air pollution regulations will reduce deaths, but do little to protect ecosystems
Existing air pollution regulations will reduce thousands of premature adult deaths in the UK, but even the most effective technically feasible actions, which will save thousands more lives, will do little to protect the country’s sensitive ecosystems, find UCL researchers.
(And that's me leaving out all the government figures - which I'm assuming you'll just try to dismiss as some sort of "conspiracy"). You'll also notice I've taken a figure that's lower than some of those. That's because of this excellent analysis:
Winton Centre Cambridge
Winton Centre for Risk and Evidence Communication
wintoncentre.maths.cam.ac.uk
which points out the huge statistical uncertainty, and the fact that many of those would have died anyway, within a relatively short space of time. Although, even that last point is debatable. If you killed a 98 year old dear by running her over, I don't think you'd get very far in court, using the "but she would have died soon anyway" defence...
And, of course, not all of these deaths will be down to air pollution from road vehicles. (Just "most" of them....).
If you have figures that you regard as more accurate, I'm willing to see them.
I think you mean there's been one where the coroner has specifically mentioned it in his report? For the actual number, see above...
Nope. Even today (never mind at the time of the ban) there are people who still don't think smoking is bad for you! (Just like, 20 or 30 years from now, there will be people who don't think vehicle emissions have any detrimental effect on health. It will just be small number who think that - just like it's a smaller number who think vehicle emissions are bad today, than it was 20 years ago. The only real difference, is that you have come to accept that smoking is bad for you, whereas you clearly haven't reached that point on vehicle emissions yet.
Might it just possibly be because air quality is only ONE factor in determining mortality?
Who said anything about making people poorer? I'm about £200-£300 a month better off, running an EV. Now of course, I'm a special case because it's a company car, but then, nobody is telling you (or anyone else) that you have to go out and get an EV tomorrow. We all know they are expensive to buy, and will remain so, until the market matures. What we CAN see, however, is that they're coming down in price all the time. And, of course (as the anti-EV brigade loves to point out), they depreciate faster. So you can't have it both ways, I'm afraid. They can't be too expensive AND suffer terrible depreciation, because if that were really true, the second hand ones wouldn't be unaffordable.
That's a somewhat defeatist approach, but fair enough, have it your own way - for the sake of argument, I'll go with that. The thing is, it's been happening since before cars were invented, so I'm not really sure what EVs have to do with it? Inequality has undoubtedly increased, this last 15 years, but then, that's hardly a surprise, because we've had a Tory government. The only really weird thing that I've never quite been able to get my head round, is why some of the people on the sh1ttiest end of the inequality ladder, keep voting Tory at elections!
Avocet lives in rural Cumbria, where we don't really have an air quality problem, so if I really had "no concerns for them", I'd leave poor folk in cities to their fate, because "I'm alright, Jack".
My own car, I've kept for 25 years so far, and I didn't buy it new, I paid £600 for it, because despite what you really want to believe, I'm not as well-off as you think. With my company car, I don't get a say in how long I keep it, but it's been more than a year so far.
I'm not that keen on wine.
Apart from that, you were spot-on, though...
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