Extending Alarm Cables

[Gigagator]

Hi all,

I need to move a domestic house alarm controller from the back of a fitted wardrobe in a bedroom up into the attic.

There are several runs of alarm cable going to each of the PIRs that are tacked to the inside of the wardrobe - they will need cutting and extending into the attic. It is standard four core stranded alarm cable.

I am going to house the connections in this junction box, but what would you use to join the individual wires? I was thinking jelly crimps as I have hundreds but they are IDC so no good on the stranded wires.

Am I overthinking it? Shall I just use terminal blocks?

Thanks in advance.

 

[lloyda]

You could use something like this

Knight Grade 3 Alarm Junction Box 20 Terminals With End / Back Knock Outs And Spring Tamper, In White | Powersaver Electrical & Security Distributors

Grade 3 alarm junction box in white 20 terminals with TACT tamper and 20 knock out points TACT Spring Micro Switch Tamper Environmental Class 2 Material: ABS Colour: White Terminals: 18 + 2 Temp Range: -40C to 50C Tamper: TACT Spring Micro Switch Size: 90x65x26mm Access: 6 End Knock-outs 2 Back...

www.powersaver.co.uk

 

[Deryck Tintagel]

You could use something like this

Knight Grade 3 Alarm Junction Box 20 Terminals With End / Back Knock Outs And Spring Tamper, In White | Powersaver Electrical & Security Distributors

Grade 3 alarm junction box in white 20 terminals with TACT tamper and 20 knock out points TACT Spring Micro Switch Tamper Environmental Class 2 Material: ABS Colour: White Terminals: 18 + 2 Temp Range: -40C to 50C Tamper: TACT Spring Micro Switch Size: 90x65x26mm Access: 6 End Knock-outs 2 Back...

www.powersaver.co.uk

I would go for this too if this is the best / only option

My first thing woul be to look at getting new runs of cable to the PIRs, etc. Second would be soldering and sleeving - this could be a lot of wrok but the cables could be burie din the wall or hidden more easily.

Are all your cables 4-core? I might expect the bell to be 6-core. Do you have global tamper?

 

[ebee]

Bog Standard Alarm cable should be 6 core for a bog standard alarm system
PIRs etc need 2 cores for alarm loop, 2 cores for tamper loop and 2 cores or +/- on 12v supply.
contacts and pressure mats etc need only the two loops (no power) so were 4 core.
Off course if you are using ID Biscuits or EOL resistors then it only needs 2 power cores and 2 cores for the one loop.
And as said bellbox alarm cable is usually 6 core.

So a 6 core for everything would be my starter for ten.
Plus the advantage of using 6 core where 4 core will do means you could run an extra loop for sensors (back to back) and sharing the same power cores or you could use them for additional speakers/sounders.

next up is 8 cores then 12 cores then 20 cores, I have not seen 20 core for a very long time and there was no price saving because the cost of smaller production runs made it not so viable really. I have probably only had one reel of 20 core, a few 12 cores and the rest mostly 6 cores with a few 8 cores and 4 cores thrown in. So 6 core gets my vote unless you not using the tamper circuit which is a bit nawty.

 

[SUNRAY]

Hi all,

I need to move a domestic house alarm controller from the back of a fitted wardrobe in a bedroom up into the attic.

There are several runs of alarm cable going to each of the PIRs that are tacked to the inside of the wardrobe - they will need cutting and extending into the attic. It is standard four core stranded alarm cable.

I am going to house the connections in this junction box, but what would you use to join the individual wires? I was thinking jelly crimps as I have hundreds but they are IDC so no good on the stranded wires.

Am I overthinking it? Shall I just use terminal blocks?

Thanks in advance.

Use whatever works best for you.
I assume that when you open the panel you will find several situations where wires within cables share terminals with others, such as the red and black power, these can be combined at the junction box to significantly reduce the number of cables to add. Doing a similar job I used 2 8core cables rather than something like 8 cables.

I'll warn that some will baulk at this idea.

 

[securespark]

Older systems used 4 core.

Another alarm fitter explained once how he could connect a bell box with 4 core, but I've forgotten what he did.

Texecom Odyssey uses 5 cores.

 

[SUNRAY]

Older systems used 4 core.

Another alarm fitter explained once how he could connect a bell box with 4 core, but I've forgotten what he did.

Texecom Odyssey uses 5 cores.

that depends on the connexions at the control panel

 

[Gigagator]

Thanks for the suggestions and comments all. I didn't get around to looking at this today. It is all part of a house renovation and other jobs ended up taking longer than expected.

It is an old Veritas alarm system that I know has been in for around 30 years but still works well, though the backup battery is dead and needs replacing.

It could very well all end up being ripped out and replaced with a new system in due course anyway, but I want something in there for now as the house is empty.

I'm a big fan of keeping equipment going if it still works and does it's job, even though I've been told "It's old, get a new system".

 

[SUNRAY]

Older systems used 4 core.

Another alarm fitter explained once how he could connect a bell box with 4 core, but I've forgotten what he did.

Texecom Odyssey uses 5 cores.

Ta-Da, I moved a bell box at work, 25.6.98.

I have no idea on make of alarm or bellbox but from this I'll guess in the panel 'tamper +' = '12V+' and 'Bell-' = '12V-'

 

[SUNRAY]

Use whatever works best for you.
I assume that when you open the panel you will find several situations where wires within cables share terminals with others, such as the red and black power, these can be combined at the junction box to significantly reduce the number of cables to add. Doing a similar job I used 2 8core cables rather than something like 8 cables.

I'll warn that some will baulk at this idea.

I lied, from 2011 move alarm panel to a different entrance. 17 cables extended using 3 6cores and replace entry/exit.

 

[SUNRAY]

...I'm a big fan of keeping equipment going if it still works and does it's job, even though I've been told "It's old, get a new system".

If it aint broke don't fix it

 

[ebee]

Sounds sensible to me. I have a lot of systems for that long ago working quite satisfactorily and I expect that to continue.

 

[sparkymarka]

Ta-Da, I moved a bell box at work, 25.6.98.
View attachment 338274
I have no idea on make of alarm or bellbox but from this I'll guess in the panel 'tamper +' = '12V+' and 'Bell-' = '12V-'

Really …
Bell box requires 5 connections
+
-
Tamper return +/-
Bell trip +/-
Strobe +/ -
- being the most commonly used in bell trip , tamper return and strobe trip
Apart from Grade 3 systems which require more ….or serial based bell boxes eg gardtec nova active 4 core only

 

[SUNRAY]

Ta-Da, I moved a bell box at work, 25.6.98.
View attachment 338274
I have no idea on make of alarm or bellbox but from this I'll guess in the panel 'tamper +' = '12V+' and 'Bell-' = '12V-'

Really …
Bell box requires 5 connections
+
-
Tamper return +/-
Bell trip +/-
Strobe +/ -
- being the most commonly used in bell trip , tamper return and strobe trip
Apart from Grade 3 systems which require more ….or serial based bell boxes eg gardtec nova active 4 core only

My alarm experience is fairly limited to mostly personal sytems: late 70s in family home, Sisters home, my first house ~1984, helped a friend with 4 or 5 systems mid 80's and a few odd changes since, usually a move of an item - such as the 2 shown or replace faulty parts. Additionally I had a small selection of parts which I'd put in temporary adhoc systems such as exhibitions, recently disposed of while having a bit of a sortout. Let's say about 20 -30 systems in all.
My recollection of the early systems which may be 'misty' is 3 pairs to the bell box; power, bell, tamper. Both of those notes appear to back that up but there is no way I can remember if any other terminals went unused or if the 'titles' I noted are an interpretation.

However redrawing to this:

If the +ve & -ve terminals in the panel are linked as shown (And I have no idea if this is the case) then the alternative arrangement on the right looks to be in order and Securespark seems to be aware of a 3rd party doing something similar.

I will happily say I'm not an expert on this and it's a while since I've had any dealings, very possibly that 2011.

 

[ebee]

Some have a strobe connection +ve and -ve but some only need one connection as the supply (usually +ve) is shared.
Of course you could still have a strobe wired across the "Bell" terminals but would only follow the bell signal if activated rather than follow say internal sounder output or "Set Confirmation" etc.