Exterior front door replacement on 1st floor flat

[smmjh11]

I have a an ex-local authority 1st floor flat which is part of a block of four flats that I rent out. Two on the ground level and two on the 1st floor. There is an external concrete open staircase leading up to the 1st floor and then my flat has a small balcony leading up to the exterior front door.
Now the front door needs replacing and I was told that I may need a fire door so on checking with the local council I was told a conventional door was fine so I placed an order for a new door. The installers then contacted me at a later date to say that it may need to be a fire door so I got back in touch with the council who then said a fire door was required. I was then told by the owners of the building that it did not need to be a fire door so this has been going backwards and forwards. I then contacted the ministry of housing to find out where I could get a definitive answer on this and they said the building control at your local authority. On contacting building control and sending them a photo of the flat and the entrance they stated that there was no building regulations to say that I needed to install a fire door bearing in mind all the other flats that are council owned do not have fire doors fitted themselves. For some reason the asset team are saying a fire door is required for housing standards but have not fitted them on council tenant properties. Has anyone come across this situation themselves as I would assume that the current building regulations are the standards to work too.

Many thanks

 

[Tigercubrider]

What's the price difference?

 

[smmjh11]

No idea as yet. I want to install a composite door if possible rather than a solid wood door. Think there may be issues of what material they should be made out of since Grenfall. Just want to make sure that I know what regs/standards I should be working too hence why I contacted building control only to be told that a fire door was not required.

 

[Nakajo]

Welcome to the future. One day, very soon, it will all be like this... all the time.

 

[JohnD]

IIRC (somebody kindly showed me the latest regs for fire doors in flats), the entrance door opening onto a shared passage or balcony has to be fire resistant, because otherwise fire might billow out from your flat impeding the escape of other residents who would have to walk past it to escape. I doubt I still have the link.

I have a friend in a small block, where most of the upper flats open onto a sort of balcony walkway, where they are all being fitted with new fire-resistant external doors for that reason. The block is 2-storey and part private, part housing association. The private owners are having to pay for their own, using the HA contractor, I think around £1k each for some kind of composite door. A few of the flats open onto indoor lobbies and already have (internal type) double FD doors with a sort of vestibule between them. Internal FD doors cost as little as £80 plus fitting and furniture.

I have a friend in a more swish private block where each apartment has an FD front door opening onto a lobby where they put pot plants and hall tables, which has non-locking smoke doors that the postman comes through.

 

[^woody^]

You need to refer to the Fire Safety Risk Assessment for the block. This will state what type of door is required and to what standard (self closer, intumescent strips etc).

The FSRA is the definitive document, what that says goes. Nothing else, not the building regs, not what happened at a mate's flat, not any other housing regs, the FSRA.

 

[JohnD]

is it a Public Document, that anybody has the right to view?

how do you know it exists for those flats?

 

[^woody^]

how do you know it exists for those flats?

Every block with communal access requires one by law. If the layout of the block is such that a FSRA is not required, then neither is a fire door.

Its not a public document for randomers to view at will, but anyone who owns a flat can obtain a copy.

 

[JohnD]

not a tenant, you mean? only leaseholders?

Who do they ask? Who has the responsibility to prepare and hold it, and to provide access to it?

 

[Leofric]

As others have said if the approach to your front door is a communal access (shared by other residents i.e. other residents have to pass your front door to escape downstairs in the event of a fire ) ,then the external door has to be fire resisting. If others can escape without passing within 1.8m of your front door it does not have to be fire resisting ( double check the 1.8m dimension)

 

[smmjh11]

Woody / JohnD

Thank you for your responses.

My flat does not have a communal access it has an outside staircase which leads onto a balcony up to the front door. At the top of the stairs it goes left to my flat and right to the other flat on the 1st floor. So, only the occupants of my flat use the balcony to the front door. I have enclosed a photo of the layout my flat is the 1st floor one on the left as you look at the picture.

The issue for me is knowing what the correct requirements are. I will have a look at my lease to see what it states.

I have tried to have a look online for regulations but so far have been unable to locate any information.

Mark

 

[^woody^]

Woody / JohnD

Thank you for your responses.

My flat does not have a communal access it has an outside staircase which leads onto a balcony up to the front door. At the top of the stairs it goes left to my flat and right to the other flat on the 1st floor. So, only the occupants of my flat use the balcony to the front door. I have enclosed a photo of the layout my flat is the 1st floor one on the left as you look at the picture.

The issue for me is knowing what the correct requirements are. I will have a look at my lease to see what it states.

Mark

It's nothing to do with the lease. Its a landlord requirement for whoever owns or manages the block, and if you are a sub-letting landlord, you should be aware of this requirement as you would be in trouble from your tenant if there was a fire.

That is a communal access (ie it's shared).

However, as its external access some assessors may regard it as not subject to the requirements to have a FSRA. But, as the occupants of the left hand flat will need to pass in front of the right hand flat's [Kitchen?] window, then that may mean that a FSRA should apply as there is a risk there.

In practical terms, if a risk assessment was done, as the front doors are isolated and no other resident is required to pass them to escape the building, then they would not be required to be fire doors.

 

[^woody^]

not a tenant, you mean? only leaseholders?

Who do they ask? Who has the responsibility to prepare and hold it, and to provide access to it?

The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005
www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/1541/contents/made

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I have a friend in a more swish private block where each apartment has an FD front door opening onto a lobby where they put pot plants and hall tables, which has non-locking smoke doors that the postman comes through.

I'd be concerned about the plants and furniture in there - you aren't supposed to have any combustible materials stored in a fire egress, nor allow any potential trip risks. What's the problem with locking? My biggest problem is with bar and restaurant owners who demand that fire exit doors are fitted mortise locks - something I've refused point blank to do for years (remember Summerland?)

 

[^woody^]

Bear in mind that composite doors are a lot more expensive than timber-based fire doors with the same rating, especially as the frame will also need to be replaced.

One of the things that has came out of the Grenfell enquiry, is that composite doors have not been tested properly to gain their FD 30/60 rating. Masterdoor (the original types, not the more recent ones where just the name was used after the company went bust) was pointed out specifically. Lots of councils and housing associations have been running round recently checking all their wonderful composite doors from various manufacturers, as they may not actually be correctly certified fire doors.