Finding neighbours rights of way

[Johnboy54]

Hello to all.
Without boring you with too many details - I will if you want to know - I have a right to access my land at the rear with my car. It's in my deeds. The access is over unregistered land. If, by a remote chance, someone turns up and claims it to be their land, there is an insurance included that will pay the difference in value of my house with/without access. A new neighbour uses it to access his land. I'm not sure he has any access rights. Is there any way I can find out?
Thanks.
John

 

[bernardgreen]

You should be able to get a copy of the deeds of your neighbour's properties from the Land Registry for £3 per deed from this official site

https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-property-and-land/copies-of-deeds

The deeds should mention any covenants regarding rights of way.

Beware the un-official sites that claim to have access to the registry and charge a lot more.

 

[footprints]

You can try here for about 3 quid you can get basic details and for another 3 quid a site plan they usually but not always show rights of way.

Results are delivered within a few minutes.

http://eservices.landregistry.gov.u...jDwsjM3MDTxN3dyNDUNMjQ1MjPWDU_P0C7IdFQG9k5Tz/

Strangely for an automated site it does not seem to operate at weekends!
I guess that's the Civil Service for you!

 

[footprints]

Snap!

 

[Johnboy54]

Thanks for the replies so quickly.
Just downloaded the register title for £3, and it looks like they have no right of way.
They have an original entrance/drive on the other side of the house, which it gives rights of way for from the 1920's.
The one at this side is in a boundary for some land they bought to extend their garden many years ago.
There is no mention of rights of way to this land.
However, as they have been using the unregistered land to enter their 'new' land at the rear, does this now give them right of way, given there's nothing about it on the deeds?
Thanks.
John

 

[^woody^]

It might not show on the £3 version as that tends to give only limited details of the property.

But you also need to check the details of the land being crossed to see if there are and grants or easements on that.

Edit. Oh it's unregistered. So it could well be used and would not show on the house deeds

 

[Johnboy54]

Thanks for the reply.
Do you mean they don't need permission as it's unregistered land?
As I said, I have rights to cross as set out in my deeds.
Do you think I should get the more detailed version?
If that doesn't mention rights of way, does the fact it's unregistered mean anyone can use it?
Provided they don't interfere with my rights, that is.
Thanks.
John

 

[SimonH2]

The fact that it is unregistered doesn't mean that no-one owns it - it just means that it wasn't voluntarily registered back when it was optional, and hasn't changed hands since registration became mandatory. Somewhere, someone probably has some deeds to the land.

But of course, it's possible for the owner to die, and his next of kin not know he owned it. If they don't come across the deeds then they might never know.

To gain possessive rights, someone needs to use the property for a period of 10 years without the owner doing anything. It is sufficient for the owner to say just once that they don't have any rights to block that - he can allow it without creating any rights.
So in your case, you are using the land with permission so I don't think you can gain possessive rights for that - at least for the access route. If you were (for example) also using other bits of the land (eg for parking, as part of your garden) then you could potentially go for possessive title.

But your neighbour can carry on, and if no-one claims to be the owner of the land and tells him to stop (or gives him permission without creating a right) then after 10 years they can apply for possessive title. Notices will be put up on the property, and the LR will write to any known owners. After another 2 years, they can apply to make that permanent and then they will officially own the land - the original owner would then no longer have any rights to it.

Where would this leave you ?
In principle, you'd still have your easement giving access to your house. But since the original deeds would have gone, there would be no record of any covenants giving you those rights. I could see an unfriendly new owner, and a solicitor with an eye on his next new car, making life difficult over it.

 

[^woody^]

Unregistered does not mean not owned. Someone somewhere may own the land and they ma or may not have agreements in place on usage.

There may be some reference to the land on deeds of any other bits of land around it, or a wider area if the land was once part of a bigger plot before being divided into housing. Or it could just be a forgotten piece of land.

It may or may not show on the full title deeds of the neighbours house, but it would be for any landowner to enforce his rights with regards to permission to use the land.

What is not clear, and is a complex area of law, is whether you can enforce your rights to use the land against the neighbour - say if he blocks it. The neighbour may owe you no duty at all in respect of your right to use land not owned by you.

 

[Johnboy54]

Thanks to both of you. A detailed, precise explanation, which I thank you for.
Doesn't look good then. Something I thought was in my favour turns out to have little meaning.
He did block me in with his car. I'd never met the man and asked if he could move back a few feet so I could get out. He was very bombastic and refused. Hence my reason for asking about his right of way.
Just one more question if you don't mind, then I'll leave you alone.
This possessive title -
My rear garden is fenced off, with a gate for entry. My wife and I park alongside our fence behind each other, on the unregistered land. Have done for 6 years.
Are you saying that in 4 years, we could apply for possessive rights because of this?
Thanks again.
John

 

[SimonH2]

Try a search for land registry possessory title
It seems that for unregistered land, you need to be using it for 12 years. Also, you need to be using it as an owner would.

How long has the neighbour been using the land ? If you ignore his use, then he could potentially claim rights himself at a future date - so it might be worth taking action to give the appearance of ownership.

But I wouldn't do anything without professional advice.

Caveat - IANAL

 

[^woody^]

I would get some specific advice regarding registering or acquiring possession of unregistered land.

The fact that you already have access rights may mean that you can't secure title to it under the 10 or 12 year rule of adverse possession. Normally you would have to demonstrate an "intention to possess" the land (fence it off, prevent access to the owner and suchlike) or have been using the land unknowingly (a fence in the wrong place say) for that time period.

I'm not clear as to whether you can just apply to register it now and see what happens. But at least then the owner may show up, and you can enforce your rights of access.

 

[Johnboy54]

Thank you all for your free time, I appreciate it.
Seems it's not as simple as saying to him, 'Oi! Get orf moi laaand'.
Plenty to think about.
Luckily I've got a medicine chest with my name on it to help.
God bless Joshua Tetley.
Thanks to all of you again.
John

 

[SimonH2]

Seems it's not as simple as saying to him, 'Oi! Get orf moi laaand'

If the neighbours doesn't know that you don't own it - then that might actually be worth trying. But I would suggest professional advice first.