Fireplace archway help. 1920's house.

[Dipdip]

Hi all. I am new to the forum but have read some excellent advice on here so i thought i would try my luck with this one:

I am investigating the possibilty of opening up and exposing the brickwork on a 1920's house fireplace. I have stripped some of the plaster off to see what was underneath and i have reached the point that i am confused.

In the picture you can see the fireplace with the plaster removed. There is a metal lintel holding up brickwork which has been added. It is inserted about 70-80mm into the mortar joint. The side walls of the chimeny are two full bricks wide.

The arch is what is confusing me. It looks like the bottom layer is missing as there appears to be old origional mortar on the bottom of the bricks. These soldiers are only half bricks and i can not see a lintel so am pressuming that they are load bearing.

I dont want to start taking the bricks out under the arch until i have confidence they are just 'fillers'. Could it be that the arch is supposed to look like that or has it been altered previously?

I only want to open it up to the arch to install a solid fuel burner so no chimeny widening required or anything like that.

The fire in there is just and electric one pushed in so it is out of the way.

Anyway, has anybody ever come across an arch like this?

Freplace

• Dipdip
• 20 Jul 2012
• 1

 

[tony1851]

The bricks are just later infilling; take them out and the arch will be fine.

 

[catlad]

Seen that plenty of times, as tony says it is just been filled in to put a more modern fire in.

 

[Dipdip]

Thats great, i will get cracking then.

I was just concerned that the actual arch looked like it was missing a row. Only basing that on there being a full brick soldier eiter side.

 

[theoldun]

Dipdip,
You are quite correct. No fireplace arch should have been built as shown in photo. The arch should have been a stretcher springer and two ring snapped header voussoirs turned over a shaped chimney bar.
At a guess, would say who ever did the infill removed the chimney bar and lost the bottom ring of the arch.
There is every possibility that when you remove the infill the arch will drop. Do not worry if it does, rattle a pre stressed con lintel in to the height required for new opening and brick up and pin as required.
Regards oldun

 

[Dipdip]

I was hoping to open it up to the arch and keep the arch exposed as derotive really. Should i try and reconstruct the bar and lower arch?

 

[tony1851]

There is every possibility that when you remove the infill the arch will drop.

The arch WON'T drop; there's nowhere for it to drop to.

 

[RonnyRaygun]

There is every possibility that when you remove the infill the arch will drop.

The arch WON'T drop; there's nowhere for it to drop to.

The arch on one of my fireplaces looks just like that...it hasn't dropped

 

[Dipdip]

I think i will slowly take the ' filler' bricks out tomorrow and keep a close eye on the arch as i do. Once they are out and it looks ok i will start taking the rest of the plaster off. I will post my results, good or bad

 

[Dipdip]

There is every possibility that when you remove the infill the arch will drop.

The arch WON'T drop; there's nowhere for it to drop to.

The arch on one of my fireplaces looks just like that...it hasn't dropped

I dont suppose you have noticed if there is a former bar under the arch have you?
I can see an old mortar joint under the arch bricks and was pressuming the bricks it joined too had gone. Unless there is a bar which the bricks had been mortared to. I suppose i will find out tomorrow anyway.

 

[theoldun]

There is every possibility that when you remove the infill the arch will drop.

The arch WON'T drop; there's nowhere for it to drop to.

Ever heard of the Titanic?
Ever heard of gravity?
Ever turned an arch over a chimney bar?
Did we say the arch would fail?
Or did we say that there is a possibility that the arch would drop.
Two different animals. Think about it as being part of your learning curve.

The arch on one of my fireplaces looks just like that...it hasn't dropped

That being the case then Ronny, means that you have not got a chimney turning bar under your arch as you have no bearings with your springer bricks being stretchers.
Agree

 

[RonnyRaygun]

That being the case then Ronny, means that you have not got a chimney turning bar under your arch as you have no bearings with your springer bricks being stretchers.
Agree

Might not be absolutely identical...haven't seen it for a while as I've Grip Filled my toddler's bookcase to the chimney breast! Pretty sure there's no chimney bar there though.

 

[tony1851]

There is every possibility that when you remove the infill the arch will drop.

The arch WON'T drop; there's nowhere for it to drop to.

Did we say the arch would fail?
Or did we say that there is a possibility that the arch would drop.
Two different animals.

If the arch drops, it fails because it is not in the position in which it was originally built. As long as the abutment remains in position (which it will, because of the weight of the chimney breast) the arch will remain.

Rummaging through some old books of mine the other week I came across an old text book entitled Brickwork for Craft Students (year one). If you give me your address, I can let you borrow it; its useful because there are lots of pictures in it and not too many words.

regards, tony.

 

[Dipdip]

Well the filler bricks are out and thhe arch is still in place, at the minute

Just got to get that metal lintel for the filler bricks out now. It is being a bit stubborn. Anybody got any tips?

Once that is out i will take the rest of the plaster off, rake the mortar joints and re-point.

Do you ever start anything and wish you had not

 

[Dipdip]

For piece of mind i have decided to add the second row in the arch. As i am trying to not disturd the top layer would i be better shaping a key brick and pushing it in last or start with the key brick?

Any tips for shaping the key brick other than hiting and hoping?