I give up.
Frost Thermostat - Plumber or eelectrician ?
- Thread starter nikki66
- Start date
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in his garage !! ..............Her garage actually 
.
Boiler and frost stat fitted inside garage. Frost stat on the same wall as boiler but some 2-3 ft away near the ceiling. Some copper pipes and some plastic. have insulated copper - do i need to insulate plastic as well?
New Build house with integral garage .
Hope this helps.
.Boiler and frost stat fitted inside garage. Frost stat on the same wall as boiler but some 2-3 ft away near the ceiling. Some copper pipes and some plastic. have insulated copper - do i need to insulate plastic as well?
New Build house with integral garage .
Hope this helps.
How many more times....It needs a PIPE STAT!!!
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Just couldn't help myself.Merry Christmas Spraggo
Just couldn't help myself.Merry Christmas Spraggo
Thank you, Merry Christmas and a Happy new Year to you.
Hi
Don't want to cause a christmas punch up.
Will lag all pipes.
Yes frost stat set correctly ( had already done that)
Between the lines i read.............get a heating engineer in ( my original question)........get them to fit a pipe stat.
Hope that solves the problem
Thanks for the help
Merry Christmas
Don't want to cause a christmas punch up.
Will lag all pipes.
Yes frost stat set correctly ( had already done that)
Between the lines i read.............get a heating engineer in ( my original question)........get them to fit a pipe stat.
Hope that solves the problem
Thanks for the help
Merry Christmas
Hi All
Just for anyone concerned about central heating coming on with frost stat. I had problem as there was no pipe stat fitted.
If the boiler is located in say as kitchen then the frost stat will do its job, especially as the ambient air temp is likely to not go below 5c anyway.
If you considering an external boiler install in say a garage or a loft then you must get the pipestat fitted e.g. honeywell L641B1004. This way the frost stat can be set to 3 degrees (it will check the air temperature in the garage or loft and kick in when air temp falls belows 3c (or whatever you have set it at)
This is TOTALLY useless on its own when your boiler is externally located because it means over winter your boiler is continuously on as the air temps will be 0c or quite often minus X degress C, hence the pipe stat I mention above.
This should be fitted to the return pipe (although in an external located boiler I cant see that it would make a great deal of difference if fitted to the send). Set the temp for this to be 10C ie the lowest on the pipe stat. This means that the frost protection only kicks in when the air temp is below 3c and the temperature of the water in your pipe is less than 10C. This will give you nice protection and minimise the amount of gas used protecting u against frost needlessly. I use a wireless CM927 for my house. That also has a 5c frost protection setting, but the external frost stat + the L641 mean that it would never kick in unless I had all the doors and windows wide open on the house in a blizzard - hope that helps
Just for anyone concerned about central heating coming on with frost stat. I had problem as there was no pipe stat fitted.
If the boiler is located in say as kitchen then the frost stat will do its job, especially as the ambient air temp is likely to not go below 5c anyway.
If you considering an external boiler install in say a garage or a loft then you must get the pipestat fitted e.g. honeywell L641B1004. This way the frost stat can be set to 3 degrees (it will check the air temperature in the garage or loft and kick in when air temp falls belows 3c (or whatever you have set it at)
This is TOTALLY useless on its own when your boiler is externally located because it means over winter your boiler is continuously on as the air temps will be 0c or quite often minus X degress C, hence the pipe stat I mention above.
This should be fitted to the return pipe (although in an external located boiler I cant see that it would make a great deal of difference if fitted to the send). Set the temp for this to be 10C ie the lowest on the pipe stat. This means that the frost protection only kicks in when the air temp is below 3c and the temperature of the water in your pipe is less than 10C. This will give you nice protection and minimise the amount of gas used protecting u against frost needlessly. I use a wireless CM927 for my house. That also has a 5c frost protection setting, but the external frost stat + the L641 mean that it would never kick in unless I had all the doors and windows wide open on the house in a blizzard - hope that helps
The reason you don't have the pipe stat on the flow is because ax soon ax the boiler fired it would be satisfied and so wouldnt protect your pipework.
The frost stat is usually placed close to the boiler on the wall in a garage. It then protects the boiler and the pipes.
Lost heat from the boiler and pipes warms up the air and turns the stat off as required.
In very cold weather thre stat can cause the boiler to run more than minimum necessary but thats still doing the primary job of protection.
Tony
Lost heat from the boiler and pipes warms up the air and turns the stat off as required.
In very cold weather thre stat can cause the boiler to run more than minimum necessary but thats still doing the primary job of protection.
Tony
It's good practice to have a pipe stat wired in series with a frost stat.
If you have a boiler in a cold loft/ out house it will keep firing until that space satisfies the frost stat, at which point your all dehydrated prunes where your heating has been running all night, a pipe stat will read that the pipes are warm and then turn off the boiler with your system protected
If you have a boiler in a cold loft/ out house it will keep firing until that space satisfies the frost stat, at which point your all dehydrated prunes where your heating has been running all night, a pipe stat will read that the pipes are warm and then turn off the boiler with your system protected
Hi Terry D
I know your right that the pipe stat should be on the return rather than the send, but really does it matter? 99% of the pipework on an external installation will be inside the house. Your quite right that as soon as the boiler fire ups it will satisfy the the pipe stat. However as soon as the boiler is off, the send starts cooling and will kick in again as soon as the send pipe has cooled.
The pipe stat is located on the send immediately as it comes out of the boiler. So on the one hand it will be satisfied very quickly, but on the other it is checking the temp on relatively exposed external pipework which will cool quickly (it would be different if the pipe stat) was fitted inside the house). I am disapointed that the stat has been fitted to the send, but the other thing to remember is that you can turn the value up. I started with 20c, but found in the current cold weather that the boiler was firing up too frequently, so I have dropped it to 10 - that may be too low - after this exchange I will change it to 15c and see how it plays out.
Overall I think people are losing sight of teh fact that frost stat is very expensive to run on external installations without a pipe stat and the frost stat simoply keeps panicking that it is cold outside
I know your right that the pipe stat should be on the return rather than the send, but really does it matter? 99% of the pipework on an external installation will be inside the house. Your quite right that as soon as the boiler fire ups it will satisfy the the pipe stat. However as soon as the boiler is off, the send starts cooling and will kick in again as soon as the send pipe has cooled.
The pipe stat is located on the send immediately as it comes out of the boiler. So on the one hand it will be satisfied very quickly, but on the other it is checking the temp on relatively exposed external pipework which will cool quickly (it would be different if the pipe stat) was fitted inside the house). I am disapointed that the stat has been fitted to the send, but the other thing to remember is that you can turn the value up. I started with 20c, but found in the current cold weather that the boiler was firing up too frequently, so I have dropped it to 10 - that may be too low - after this exchange I will change it to 15c and see how it plays out.
Overall I think people are losing sight of teh fact that frost stat is very expensive to run on external installations without a pipe stat and the frost stat simoply keeps panicking that it is cold outside
I'm doing a full install next week with the boiler in the loft, the carcass being run in the loft. ( bungalow) with drop feeds to the rads.
Most of the pipework will be in the loft.
Always fit the pipe stat on the return, when when the return reaches temp you know that the whole system is protected.
Most of the pipework will be in the loft.
Always fit the pipe stat on the return, when when the return reaches temp you know that the whole system is protected.
will do - I guess I am lucky that my 1930s semi - has the outhouse right next to the kitchen so its a metre or two till the pipework is in the house - Also importantly we also did not run any pipework under the down stairs floor boards to conceal pipework, otherwise there would have been a lot more of pipework exposed to the outside. All in I would say 99% of c/h systems would suffer from having pipestat fitted to the send.
All in I can absolutely see that the best protection is for the pipe stat to be on the return.
Many thanks for enlightening an amateur DIYer. The company that did it for me were very good by and large and I have given them a very good rating overall, but I was dissapointed by the pipe stat issue.
Its mad that experienced tradesmen would fit an external installation, without a pipe stat and then when called to rectify the ommission fir the pipe stat to the send rather than the return, probably a minor quible overall, but does irk me somewhat
All in I can absolutely see that the best protection is for the pipe stat to be on the return.
Many thanks for enlightening an amateur DIYer. The company that did it for me were very good by and large and I have given them a very good rating overall, but I was dissapointed by the pipe stat issue.
Its mad that experienced tradesmen would fit an external installation, without a pipe stat and then when called to rectify the ommission fir the pipe stat to the send rather than the return, probably a minor quible overall, but does irk me somewhat
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