Fuse box replacement - is it necessary

[LoveRocket]

If you're responsible for concealing a cable in a wall because you've moved an accessory then, if you want to comply with BS 7671:2008, you have to RCD protect it. (Or use steel conduit etc)

Yes, but ColJack is a real electrician, working in the real world.
A world of realities - customers without bottomless pits of money, a world where common sense must be used. This world differs significantly from the world of internet forums and well-thumbed copies of BS7671 on the bedside table.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Ah - you mean a world in which so-called "professional" electricians tell lies on documents.

 

[LoveRocket]

Ah - you mean a world in which so-called "professional" electricians tell lies on documents.

You need to get a grip of yourself.

It would appear this is a world you have never encountered. Nice way to attack ColJack's integrity too.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Actually it was you who said that real electricians, quoting ColJack as an example, did not in real life comply with BS 7671.

Which can only mean, if they sign a declaration saying "I being the person responsible for the Design, Construction, Inspection & Testing of the electrical installation (as indicated by my signature below), particulars of which are described above, having exercised reasonable skill and care when carrying out the Design, Construction, Inspection & Testing, hereby CERTIFY that the said work for which I have been responsible is to the best of my knowledge and belief in accordance with BS 7671:2008......", that they have made a false statement, but that they want people to believe that the work they did was in accordance with BS 7671:2008

A deliberately false statement made in order to deceive is a lie.

 

[LoveRocket]

You need to get a grip of yourself..

 

[ban-all-sheds]

"I being the person responsible for the Design, Construction, Inspection & Testing of the electrical installation (as indicated by my signature below), particulars of which are described above, having exercised reasonable skill and care when carrying out the Design, Construction, Inspection & Testing, hereby CERTIFY that the said work for which I have been responsible is to the best of my knowledge and belief in accordance with BS 7671:2008......"

Do you believe that if someone is being paid to do some work, and to give their customer a certificate on which they make that declaration, that the declaration should be true?

Let's not have any more b******s about needing to get a grip, and no more weasel words about "oh but this is the real world".

It's a very simple question. When a professional electrician makes such a declaration, do you think that he should be telling the truth, yes or no?

 

[ColJack]

I'm sorry, but when exactly did I say that I would be signing a document and lieing on it?

you can note the lack of RCD as a departure, a part of the declaration that you conveniently left off..

 

[jj4091]

It's not a NICEIC reg it's a IET reg.. namely BS7671:2008

the reg that you are refering to is about burried cables <50mm without mechanical protection --- they are required to have RCD protection!

SO any cable that your electrician worked on that is burried <50mm and isn't mechanically protected will require RCD protection.

This can be done in several ways:-

c) add RCD protection in a seperate encosure adjacent to your CU for the affected circuits

also your electrician would have to make sure that your main earth and Protective Earth Bonding is upto current standards...

If your current CU does not have any RCD protection then it may be advisable to have it replaced, but it is certainally not a requirement.

My understanding is if you did it this way by breaking into the exsisting tails then it would not be notifiable, but if you fitted new tails either from the meter to the rcd or the rcd to the consumer unit ( probably 300mm of cable per leg) then it would become notifiable. I think in my opinion that this illustrates the complications of part p & certification versus the real world. Or am I mistaken?

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

Sparks needs help....

or "sparks, need help!!", but commas and exclamation marks possibly not permitted in screen names ?
Dear Sheddy, please try to be less critical of people until you have a bit more information about them. You're not Paxman and never will be

To the OP,

The IET compile the regs, which is a british standard (BS7671:2008) The NIC do not make regs, they just fleece every one of their members for hundreds of pounds per year. They appear to have the biggest stranglehold over the countries's electrical industry and their propaganda machine is one of the best going

 

[nozspark]

jj4091

to clarify.

c)add RCD protection in a seperate encosure adjacent to your CU for the affected circuits

meaning install RCD protection directly after the fuse (or MCB), not in the tails

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I'm sorry, but when exactly did I say that I would be signing a document and lieing on it?

You didn't, but LoveRocket said you would:

If you're responsible for concealing a cable in a wall because you've moved an accessory then, if you want to comply with BS 7671:2008, you have to RCD protect it. (Or use steel conduit etc)

Yes, but ColJack is a real electrician, working in the real world.
A world of realities - customers without bottomless pits of money, a world where common sense must be used. This world differs significantly from the world of internet forums and well-thumbed copies of BS7671 on the bedside table.

Which seems a pretty clear imputation from LoveRocket that you wouldn't use an RCD or conduit etc to protect a cable you had newly concealed in a wall.

I pointed out to him that that was what he said, and all he did was to try and dismiss my concerns about such practices. You should note that he did not in any way retract what he said about you.

you can note the lack of RCD as a departure, a part of the declaration that you conveniently left off..

You may not do that, as any departure has to comply with 120.3 or 120.4. The latter would not be relevant in this case, but 120.3 would, and it says quite clearly that the resulting degree of safety of the installation shall not be less than that obtained by compliance.

Now - the argument about whether the increased safety provided by RCD protecting (or etc) all concealed cables was worth making it a regulation is a valid one, but until the IET retract, the requirement remains, and however marginal, not complying with 522.6.7 is less safe than complying with it, and therefore that departure is not allowed.

 

[LoveRocket]

I'm sorry, but when exactly did I say that I would be signing a document and lieing on it?

You didn't, but LoveRocket said you would:

If you're responsible for concealing a cable in a wall because you've moved an accessory then, if you want to comply with BS 7671:2008, you have to RCD protect it. (Or use steel conduit etc)

Yes, but ColJack is a real electrician, working in the real world.
A world of realities - customers without bottomless pits of money, a world where common sense must be used. This world differs significantly from the world of internet forums and well-thumbed copies of BS7671 on the bedside table.

Which seems a pretty clear imputation from LoveRocket that you wouldn't use an RCD or conduit etc to protect a cable you had newly concealed in a wall.

I pointed out to him that that was what he said, and all he did was to try and dismiss my concerns about such practices. You should note that he did not in any way retract what he said about you.

you can note the lack of RCD as a departure, a part of the declaration that you conveniently left off..

You may not do that, as any departure has to comply with 120.3 or 120.4. The latter would not be relevant in this case, but 120.3 would, and it says quite clearly that the resulting degree of safety of the installation shall not be less than that obtained by compliance.

Now - the argument about whether the increased safety provided by RCD protecting (or etc) all concealed cables was worth making it a regulation is a valid one, but until the IET retract, the requirement remains, and however marginal, not complying with 522.6.7 is less safe than complying with it, and therefore that departure is not allowed.

May I respond in a rational and reasoned way: You are an idiot.

 

[jj4091]

jj4091

to clarify.

c)add RCD protection in a seperate encosure adjacent to your CU for the affected circuits

meaning install RCD protection directly after the fuse (or MCB), not in the tails

Sorry, I thought that you meant to protect the whole consumer unit.

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

My house is 16 years old, and i have just had a wall taken down. There was a light switch and two plug sockets on the wall that has gone, so the electrician moved these a few feet to a different wall. I am now told that I need a new fusebox installed at £400 - Can this be right? - No additional sockets etc....

If you're a sparks, why do you need to ask this question?

Dear Sheddy,

Why, simply based on the posters user name, did you feel that s/he may be an electrician?
If you had bothered to look at the question with a view to helping the OP, you would have noticed that s/he has had prices from an electrician.
If the OP was an electrician, do you think s/he would have bothered even getting a price??
I would think its fairly safe to assume that the op is not an electrician.
Do you not agree?

So, merely to re-iterate the wise words written by our fellow contributor:-

You need to get a grip of yourself..

 

[ban-all-sheds]

May I respond in a rational and reasoned way: You are an idiot.

"I being the person responsible for the Design, Construction, Inspection & Testing of the electrical installation (as indicated by my signature below), particulars of which are described above, having exercised reasonable skill and care when carrying out the Design, Construction, Inspection & Testing, hereby CERTIFY that the said work for which I have been responsible is to the best of my knowledge and belief in accordance with BS 7671:2008......"

Do you believe that if someone is being paid to do some work, and to give their customer a certificate on which they make that declaration, that the declaration should be true?

Let's not have any more b******s about needing to get a grip, and no more weasel words about "oh but this is the real world", no more "you're an idiot"

It's a very simple question. When a professional electrician makes such a declaration, do you think that he should be telling the truth, YES OR NO?