Garage Lighting - some info please

[Aragorn84]

I've been waiting for my landlord to properly rewire the garage for a while now, but in the mean time i want to sort some better lighting out myself.

I've picked up 3 5ft IP65 fluro battens, and installed them on the roof.

My question mainly regards the regulations about external work. Would i be right in thinking that even if i connect these new fluro battens in place of the old bayonet bulb holder, the work will need notified or carried out by a Part-P certified electrician?

As such i have connected one batten up at the moment, with some flex and a 13A plug on the end. I think this should mean that it doesnt come under the regs and i can just plug it in like any other appliance without any notification?

What i'm wondering is would it be allowed to connect all 3 flexes together at a junction box on the wall, then run a single flex from this junction box to the plug socket? At what point would it be regarded as a fixed installation and therefore require notification? Ie if i ran the 3 flexes to a junction box, then to a light switch, then to the 13A plug, would this then be regarded as a fixed installation?

The ultimate plan will be that when the landlord finally gets his finger out, then these battens can be properly wired in with a switch etc, however in the mean time, i need some better lighting so i'm trying to find an approach that wont breach the regulations!

If i can have my 3 battens wired up to a light switch, and plugged in via a 13A socket then that would be ideal for now!

Cheers

Kevin.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I've picked up 3 5ft IP65 fluro battens, and installed them on the roof.

My question mainly regards the regulations about external work.

Big mistake - you should not have put those lights on the roof, they should be inside the garage.

If you put them inside then not only will they no longer be notifiable but they will do a much better job of providing light in the garage.

Would i be right in thinking that even if i connect these new fluro battens in place of the old bayonet bulb holder, the work will need notified or carried out by a Part-P certified electrician?

Yes, unless you bring them inside.



OK - serious answers...

At what point would it be regarded as a fixed installation

At the point you fix anything, e.g. screwing a light fitting to something, or clipping a flex to a wall.

and therefore require notification?

But there's no "therefore" - a garage is not a special location, and I assume it doesn't double as a kitchen, so adding lights in there is not notifiable.

Provided it won't cause grief with the landlord just install them and connect them properly to the lighting circuit. You could even leave his old lampholder in place, so as not to be accused of removing his property.

 

[ericmark]

If you already have power in the garage you will have very few problems. If however you don't have power in the garage the question has to be where is the garage located. If attached to house then you are likely to be able to do something but at end of the garden costs to keep legal can rocket.

There are two sets of rules.
The BS7671:2008 or 17th Edition is not law but may be used in a court of law to show negligence etc.
The Part P is law and in general says you must follow BS7671.

Part P is a big problem for small jobs as the minimum charge from LABC is for a £2000 job so starts at £100+ which means for small jobs it is cheaper not to DIY.

However Part P only covers domestic so if garage was remote from house it could well have nothing to do with Part P.

Also to need to notify the work has to be in garden, bathroom or kitchen or replacing consumer unit plus needs to be fixed.

Being fixed is a problem as even if you use a flex if any part of that is fixed it comes under Part P so if you were to use an extension lead in a kitchen and slot it onto screws in the wall to keep out of any water on counter and also pinned up the cable it could come under Part P if you made the extension lead.

But for you I suspect what you want is to not fall foul of the landlord by doing something he may complain about latter or ask for paper work which you don't have.

Here you have a problem as even without Part P every installation must be inspected and tested and for an electrician with the test equipment this is a very quick and easy process to issue a minor works certificate but for the DIY person the £750 price tag on the test equipment becomes a problem even if you know how to do it.

So I would say likely you are better not to DIY.

If you can explain what you want to do in more detail like location of garage and where power will come from then you may get a better answer.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Eric - I think it safe to assume that as the garage already has a light, and at least one socket, that it already has a supply...

...bayonet bulb holder,...some flex and a 13A plug on the end.

 

[Aragorn84]

Ah thats good to know, and yes they're inside the garage

I presumed because the garage was an outbuilding not attached to the main property it would come under the "outside" electrics part of the regs.

There is not really a proper "lighting circuit" there at the moment, part of the reason for it requiring a rewire. The current "wiring" consists of a trailing socket hanging off a 20A DP switch that sits on the incoming MICC feed (and the MICC appears to be an unfused spur from the downstairs ring main), and some even more shonky crap connected to said trailing socket!!!

How does this sound then:

I'll wire the 3 batens to a lighting junction box, and then connect the switch up as normal. Then instead of connecting that lighting junction box into the lighting circuit that should be there, i'll run a piece of flex from it to the shonky trailing socket and plug it in with a normal plug.

That way the lighting is "done right" upto the point where it should be sitting on the lighting circuit thats not actually there?

Then when the landlord finally puts his hand in his pocket, the electrician can replace my flex/13a plug with the correct T&E going to a consumer unit or FCU?

Cheers
Kevin

 

[chapeau]

I know this doesn't answer your question, but the landlord needs to be careful if he is renting out a property with the electrics in the state you describe. He has a duty to provide a safe place for you to live, and that includes the garage, especially if you are going to be working in there.

If you are a good tenant and pay your rent on time I think he would be foolish to ignore your reasonable request to sort this out.

Though I think your solution to plug the lights into this existing dodgy socket would not put yourself in any risk of being prosecuted for breaching the building regs.

 

[Aragorn84]

Oh i fully realise its his duty to fix this. I moved in about a month ago and was streight onto the letting agents about the state of the wiring.

The landlord got an electrician out who looked at it an agreed it was a shonky mess and needed replaced. He said that he'd really want to run some new SWA out to the garage as the existing MICC is badly terminated, and a bit too small to run much more than one 13A socket (i'd like to be able to use my welder and suchlike out there, so having more than 13A on tap would be useful). He also said that would mean installing an additional CU at the meter end, as the current one is both full and very old (has wire up fuses) and has no RCD protection.

He obviously took all that back to the landlord and ive heard nothing since. I've been chasing it up over the last few days, but i suspect its going to cost a lot to fix properly and the guy is being reluctant to put his hand in his pocket.

I need to be able to use the garage in the mean time, and installing some new lighting will make it all a bit safer given the state of the current lights that are plugged into the trailing socket! I'd just like to ensure what i planned to do wasnt going to breach a whole pile of regulations!

Thanks

Kevin

 

[chapeau]

OK,

well speaking as a landlord who has had a similar garage.....

It would depend on what was agreed prior to your moving in. In general, though, I would not consider it my duty to provide enough current to run a welder. Just enough to supply a single socket and sufficient lighting for it to be safe for you to use the garage for what it is designed to be, somewhere you park a car. So lets say 20Amps, which the MICC might handle, depends on it's size really.

As for the house, if the wiring is otherwise safe, and it sounds like this needs checking properly, the only required upgrade is main bonding, which is connecting an earth to the incoming water/gas pipes, and running that back to the fuse board. If you cannot see that then it really needs doing some time in the near future.

But, because it's a rental property the landlord would be well advised to do what the electrician suggests. This is more to do with a duty of care and less to do with building regulations, i would say.

 

[Aragorn84]

The welder just runs off a 13A plug, so all said and done it would probably be happy running on whats there, just not the way its currently implemented!

The earth bonding was done by the same electrician that quoted the job, when he installed a new electric shower before we moved in. Unfortunately, while he installed a new CU for the electric shower complete with RCD protection, its only a single way box, so theres no spare fuseway.

My primary concern was that even if the silly trailing socket was removed, and replaced with a properly fitted socket, theres no overcurrent protection. Should something short out in the garage wiring, theres no RCD to trip the power as soon as earth leakage is detected, so the only protection is the 30A wire fuse for the downstair ring main....

That means that both the MICC, and presumably the 2.5mm T&E its connected to once its inside the house could be carrying waay over their design limits before the main fuse blew.

The MICC should really be terminated in a 16 or 20a fuse/mcb of its own, perferably with RCD protection. The problem is that its so badly terminated at the garage end the electrician said he really wouldnt want to start messing with it.

The electrician agreed with me and said he'd really like to do it properly with a proper SWA feed on its own breaker and a garage CU, but thats when it all gets expensive.

It all comes down to the fact that the electrician things the current setup needs replaced, and if your running a new cable then you may as well run some decent 6mm SWA out rather than another silly 2.5mm piece.

 

[chapeau]

Ok, didn't realise the welder was on a plug, should have asked ..

Just a picky point, but the RCD doesn't provide overcurrent protection, that will be provided by the fuse somewhere upstream of the cable/sockets. And yes you need something lower than 30A to protect that 2.6mm T.E. Now you definitely need something to detect current leakage in your garage sockets, and an RCD in a garage consumer unit would be a preferred way way of doing that. But also a RCD in a dedicated socket would also work.

Now I am not advising this as it is a rental property, just going over what is possible really.

I would give your landlord more than a few days to get back to you, but not meccessarily much longer. Sounds like you have a letting agent in the loop, who should really be dealing with this, but they are generally useless.

One shouldn't be a landlord unless you are prepared to pay for these things. In a perfect world of course. He might still be getting ready to do so and just taking longer than you would like of course. Tenants can sometimes not realise how long things take, always want things yesterday

 

[Aragorn84]

Thanks for that. Just been on the phone to the contractor there, and it seems he's just been too busy to have a chat with the landlord about what needs doing.

I'll keep on at them about sorting this properly, but in the mean time i'll try and get this lighting sorted out so i can actually see whats going on in there!

Cheers