General CH maintenance/cleaning/prevention questions

[wizbongre]

Now that we have a fully working and not leaking GlowWorm 30cxi, I can start to look at some of the plumbing/heating work I have on my to-do list for our new house so have a few general questions...

Due to the on-going leak and constant topping up, the system is very dilute in terms of inhibitor although from initial inspection appears relatively sludge free, with no cold spots on any of the rads. I plan to run some system restorer through it for a couple of weeks then flush and refill with inhibitor and possibly noise silencer. The MI suggest either Sentinel or Fernox products - I propose to use X400 to clean, then re-fill with X100 and X200.
Anyone see any issues with that, with the stainless HEX in the 30cxi, or any other considerations I should be aware of?

Obviously I'll need to drain the system at least once to do this - as far as I can tell the main drain points are from radiator valve drains. I'd prefer to fit a central one, below the return to the boiler in our kitchen (lowest point of the system) for easier access & draining. This is 22mm pipework but I can't find 22mm drain valves after an initial Google.
Is it just easier to reduce to 15mm and use a normal 15mm drain valve or am I just not searching hard enough?!

Finally, the BG engineer who fixed the PRV/EV leak yesterday showed me a SpiroTrap MB2 and suggested we have one fitted. At ~£250 from BG it was a bit steep, and follow-up research shows I can get one for about £80 and fit it myself. I'd probably go for the MB3 actually.
Are these any good or is the Fernox TF1 better? (I've ruled the Magnaclean out after reading lots of leaking complaints on here.)
Should I fit the filter before I add the X400, with the aim it will help pick up and capture any sludge that is worked loose?

I need to swap/remove a few TRV's but can do this at the same time as draining the system for the above works. I intend to fit a wireless stat to the system at some point soon but will save that for a follow up post once all of the above is complete...

Any other suggestions on preventative maintenance appreciated!

 

[Whitespirit66]

I would just run add the cleaner, flush then inhibitor. Silencer is only needed if your boiler suffers from kettling - no other useful purpose.

What type of fitting are you intending to use to attach drain cock to 22mm pipe? End feed/Yorks solder or compression? You could buy a 22X22X15 tee in any of these formats and fit a 15mm Type A d/c into the 15mm part of tee. Don't fit Type B cocks, these leak when draining.

http://lpssupplies.com/22x22x15-feed-reducing-p-1802.html

A filter fitted on return pipe close to boiler is a good idea. Especially before flushing, as debris can end up lodged in boiler afterwards. TF1 is my preference, but Spiro should be OK.

 

[gas_man_gaz]

i would drain a downstairs rad fully and check the water to see if it does actually need flushing, if it doesn't i wouldn't bother.. just top the system with inhibitor using a good brand such as fernox.
bg do fit the mb3, the mb2 is old stock and they should add inhibitor if you have them to carry out the job.
the boiler does have a drain valve, but if ya want to fit one to the pipework buy a 22-22-15mm compression fitting and a 15mm capillary drain off

 

[gas_man_gaz]

aghh just seen whitespirits post, +1

 

[Whitespirit66]

aghh just seen whitespirits post, +1

Yes, good point re. checking to see if it really needs flushing. OP - As said, I would only flush if system needs it, but always keep inhibitor up to strength.

 

[wizbongre]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

So new (full) plan is:

• Check for sludge in system.
• Possibly clean & flush.
• Drain system.
• Fit 22x22x15 solder tee (one of these http://lpssupplies.com/22x22x15mm-solder-ring-reducing-p-1816.html ) below the boiler (appreciate the boiler itself has a drain, and I already have a few radiator drains, just want one at the very bottom of the pipework in the kitchen for convenience.)
• Add a type A drain cock (one of these http://lpssupplies.com/type-15mm-p-3035.html ) - I assume this is a compression fitting judging by the photo? What is the difference between this and a capillary one (such as this http://www.plumbase.com/tprod95200/section1950/drain-off-cock-type-a-capillary-15mm.html ) and do I need a capillary one? I'd prefer either compression or solder, rather than end-feed as my soldering skills aren't quite that good due to lack of practice. Looking around I can find 22mm inline drains (such as http://www.wickes.co.uk/compression-drain-off-coupling-22mm-dzr/invt/226637/ ) which might actually save a bit of messing around, however not sure if it is type A or B.
• Fit MB3 on return to boiler.
• Move TRV on bathroom rad to feed instead of return, to stop chattering.
• Remove TRV from hall rad ready for room stat to be fitted and replace with normal valve.
• Re-fill & add inhibitor.
• Bleed radiators for days, then spend ages running around trying to balance system.

I'll try and use solder fittings if I can however access around the boiler is limited so I may need to use compression - just need to figure out which is the most practical without ripping the kitchen cupboard out. If I can find a 22mm inline drain then that will help. Also just thinking, there’s nothing to stop me fitting the MB3 quite low in the return pipework below the boiler and using the drain pipe on that, saving me the hassle on adding an extra drain. Does that sound feasible?

All this should keep me busy for an afternoon

 

[Whitespirit66]

If you prefer solder ring or compression tee, you need the capillary drain off. It will fit into the 15mm part of tee, as it's the dame OD as 15mm pipe. Just remember, if soldering the d/o into place, unscrew it's head and remove valve, or you will cook the rubber washer inside when soldering.

The other drain off with thread is only for BSP fittings.

The Wickes coupling will save effort, but looks like a type B. When you turn the valve on it to drain down , it will most likely weep when the d/o is open. Not a problem if you can put a container underneath during draining. You could poss drain through MB3, but not sure if you can attach a hose to it. May be easier to have a d/o as well.

 

[wizbongre]

Thanks Whitespirit66. Good tip on the soldering too - can guarantee that would have cost me the first valve

Not sure I can get a container under where I'm planning to add the valve, as it is intentionally as low to the floor as possible so a type b is probably out.

I'm sure I've seen a video with a hose on the MB3 but I want to get that right next to the boiler, so will probably just stick to my plan of having a separate drain.

Thanks again.

 

[wizbongre]

Just a quick follow up on this...

I took some of the access panels off from around our boiler to see where the best place to fit the MB3 could be.

As you can see from this photo, both the feed (leftmost pipe) and return (rightmost pipe) immediately go into a 22-22-22 T-piece, to split for upstairs and downstairs circuits.
View media item 59127
I was considering installing the MB3 below the boiler on the return, sort of underneath where you can see the white condensate drain pipe. This would sit behind the cupboard below the one you see in the picture, offering decent access when it's back panel is removed, similar to the main boiler one in this picture.

My concern now is that this will only cover the return from the downstairs loop - is this a problem or is it fair to assume the water in the pipes will circulate around the whole system over time, especially as TRV's open and close and the balance of the flow changes?

The more extreme option is to cut the existing pipework out and move the t-piece after a straight run of the return solely for the MB3, however I'd prefer not to have to do that if possible.

What do people think?

 

[Armo74]

Not very helpful but couldn't resist, don't people use soldering mats these days

 

[wizbongre]

Not very helpful but couldn't resist, don't people use soldering mats these days

I know - first time I looked I thought the same. I'm an amateur DIYer and I use one!

 

[wizbongre]

Anyone got any advice/comments on where to site the MB3 on the return to the boiler? (See the photo and explanation a couple of posts back.)

 

[DavyS]

• Move TRV on bathroom rad to feed instead of return, to stop chattering.
• Remove TRV from hall rad ready for room stat to be fitted and replace with normal valve.

I have Danfoss TRVs and they recommend installing them on return side of radiator - horizontally. That way they are less likely to be influenced by heat from a hot pipe immediatly below the sensor head.
I would advise not removing the TRV from hall rad if you are thinking of a wireless thermostat. The whole point of a wireless thermostat is that you can move it around to where you are - especially the lounge in the evenings.