Heating engineers choice of pipe... explain?

[telnet]

We are having a complete new heating system installed: 31Kw Vaillant EcoTech, seven rads and new pipes. My first though was to replace the existing 1970s microbore with 15 mm copper lagged with Tubolit or similar product.

The first couple of engineers wanted to use plastic pipe, but it is the ground floor of an 1890s tenement building and there are rodents present, which put me off this idea.

The only guy willing to do copper wanted to use 10mm coated copper, which to my mind is borderline microbore. He claims that the coating serves as an insulator, but I don't believe it. If it was an insulator the manufacturer would have a thermal conductivity value. The wind blows freely under the floor and insulation is therefore important.

I would like to ask the forum about whether it is worth going to the extra expense of installing 15 mm lagged copper pipe. My first though is, yes, because those pipes will be radiating heat under the floor for the next 30 years. However, I might be living in the past, so I am asking which pipe:
plastic, unlagged 10 mm coated copper or 15 mm with lagging? Or I suppose we could lag the 10mm as well.

Thanks for your advice.

 

[Johnmelad]

You are the customer, you pay the bill. If it gives you peace of mind, go for what you want.

 

[Dan Robinson]

A rodent will will make his way through copper just as easily as plastic.

Run the spine of the heating in 22mm plastic branching off to the rads in in 15mm.


Or, fit a manifold and run 15mm 15mm to each rad.

Either way you should insulate the pipes as best as possible.


I use copper when the pipes are visible and and plastic when they're not.

 

[telnet]

You are the customer, you pay the bill. If it gives you peace of mind, go for what you want.

Hi John, If I was interested in piece of mind I would go to yoga classes.

What I want is low heating bills and not to lift the floor in the next 30 years before I die. I'm like to Federal Government... I only build to last.

 

[Charnwood]

There are 2 types of plastic coatings; plain and castellated.
Castellated has air gaps, so provides a level of insulation, although the 2 British manufacturers only state it's for reducing the surface temperature, not 'thermal insulation'.

 

[telnet]

A rodent will will make his way through copper just as easily as plastic.

Really, that surprises me as when they gnaw they are either making bedding or trying to escape. Have you really seen this?

Run the spine of the heating in 22mm plastic branching off to the rads in in 15mm.

Or, fit a manifold and run 15mm 15mm to each rad.

OK, any other advice on how to write the specification would be great. I am paying for this in my sister's house which is 300 miles away, so I need to write a specification which me and the engineer agree on.

Either way you should insulate the pipes as best as possible.

So you recommend insulating plastic pipe. OK, I could have my brother in law crawl under the floor (he is an unemployed aerial installer so he would probably be up for that ). Joking aside, I will have to look into the lambda values of various pipes and insulation, unless you know stuff off-hand, in which case I would be pleased to hear your suggestions.

 

[Dan Robinson]

There is such a thing as over thinking the problem.

THe best method of piping it up depends really on how you want to control it.

High tech zoning and simple plumbing with no joints - manifold.


Simple to understand conventional - 22mm spine - 15mm rads.



Rats will gnaw through anything they feel the need to. You might lag the pipe. they might gnaw the lagging. A poxy bit of copper or PBEX isn't going to stop them.

 

[GavThePlumber]

A rodent will will make his way through copper just as easily as plastic.

Really, that surprises me as when they gnaw they are either making bedding or trying to escape. Have you really seen this?

It is because their teeth never stop growing, so they gnaw to keep their teeth from getting too long.

Never seen it happen in copper mind

 

[Terrywookfit]

It would appear that your main concern should be vermin control.
I have never seen copper pipes damaged by Rats. I am sure that they would gnaw on timber in preference.

I was always led to believe that the plastic coating on pipes was to protect from corrosion.

 

[Charnwood]

I was always led to believe that the plastic coating on pipes was to protect from corrosion.

Kuterlex is copper tube coated with a seamless plastics cover which protects the copper tube against aggressive materials. The Kuterlex cover eliminates time-consuming wrapping operations. It is also colour coded to identify the services carried in accordance with UK local authority specifications and BS 1710: 1984, “Specification for identification of pipelines and services”.

BENEFITS
Reduces installation time
Protects the copper tube against aggressive materials
Protects the copper tube against accidental damage and abrasion
Plastic covering withstands water service temperatures up to 95°C
Covering remains flexible down to -60°C
Reduces condensation on exposed pipework
Reduces surface temperature of the tube, thereby minimising the risk of burns or scalding
Reduces noise level in exposed pipework
Removes the need to paint exposed pipework

 

[Charnwood]

I was always led to believe that the plastic coating on pipes was to protect from corrosion.

Kuterlex is copper tube coated with a seamless plastics cover which protects the copper tube against aggressive materials. The Kuterlex cover eliminates time-consuming wrapping operations. It is also colour coded to identify the services carried in accordance with UK local authority specifications and BS 1710: 1984, “Specification for identification of pipelines and services”.

BENEFITS
Reduces installation time
Protects the copper tube against aggressive materials
Protects the copper tube against accidental damage and abrasion
Plastic covering withstands water service temperatures up to 95°C
Covering remains flexible down to -60°C
Reduces condensation on exposed pipework
Reduces surface temperature of the tube, thereby minimising the risk of burns or scalding
Reduces noise level in exposed pipework
Removes the need to paint exposed pipework