Hell no Hep2o

[JBPHS]

I'm hearing more and more about hep2o fittings letting go within 2 years after the '10 year warranty'. Am I worried? No, I never install plastic pressure pipework. But saying that, I do feel for the unfortunate people who, through no fault of their own, experience flood damage caused by such failures. I believe, for the cost of installing pipework, you'd expect it to last a lifetime. Anyone who works on boiler repairs, knows how o-rings degrade and lose their flexibility.

Rant (if you would call it that), over.

James.

 

[stardanny]

Never touch push fit like hep2o and speedfit.

Live long copper pipes, compression and solder rings!

Daniel.

 

[Richardthe3rd]

I'm hearing more and more about hep2o fittings letting go within 2 years after the '10 year warranty'. Am I worried? No, I never install plastic pressure pipework. But saying that, I do feel for the unfortunate people who, through no fault of their own, experience flood damage caused by such failures. I believe, for the cost of installing pipework, you'd expect it to last a lifetime. Anyone who works on boiler repairs, knows how o-rings degrade and lose their flexibility.

Rant (if you would call it that), over.

James.

Nope, never heard anything about that or ever heard of a Bartol Acorn fitting blowing either. We did 100s of houses with Acorn in the 80s , I've worked in several systems with Acorn since then & it's all tight as a drum......👍👍

Replaced plenty leaking capillary fittings though....🚽🔧🔩

 

[jeff the gasman]

I've got Acorn in my house installed in 1984 ish
Never had any issues at all.
Jeff

 

[pallen5000]

Had a few call outs to Speedfit fittings blown off, but hard to tell if they was fitted correctly in the first place.

 

[SandyLyon]

I'm hearing more and more about hep2o fittings letting go within 2 years after the '10 year warranty'. Am I worried? No, I never install plastic pressure pipework. But saying that, I do feel for the unfortunate people who, through no fault of their own, experience flood damage caused by such failures. I believe, for the cost of installing pipework, you'd expect it to last a lifetime. Anyone who works on boiler repairs, knows how o-rings degrade and lose their flexibility.

Rant (if you would call it that), over.

James.

We work for a number of National Developers and use loads of Pushfit, in particular Hep2o.

We follow manufacturers guidelines
We don't mix Plasitc Pipe / fittings manufacturers on the same system
We pressure test before handover
We have very lfew issues with plastic.

The majority of problems with Pushfit are down to installer error (no insert, pipe not pushed fully in, scored pipe, dirt and grit under the "O" ring)

We have not heard of fittings "letting go" if installed correctly.

Also are you sure you are talking about Hep2o and not confusing with Plastic Plumbing in general, (because there is some cheap rubbish about) because you are quoting a 10 year warranty, Hep2o carries a 50 year warranty, including the "O" rings.

 

[twgas]

I have found a few leaking fittings on plastic but no more so than copper. I do however find plastic on CH systems (rad supplies) much more prone to blocking with magnetite than copper and yes I do know about barrier and non-barrier pipe.

 

[JBPHS]

Hi guys, thanks all for your input. Ok full story of one scenario that has occurred:

Homeowners (chap is in the plumbing & heating trade and is no fool) were away for the weekend. They arrive back to house with water everywhere. Isolated water supply and the faulty fitting was identified as a Hep2o installed on the cold mains supply to a first floor WC, yes Hep2o not speedfit or polyplumb, etc. The fitting failed on the side where Hep2o plastic pipe had been fully inserted into the fitting. So this is clearly a grab ring failure. The side where copper tube had been inserted was ok. Contacted manufacturers, to which they stated that that particular fitting had a 10 year warranty (house and system is 12 years old). The pipe had a longer warranty. Builder came out and said that the house is basically written off, all walls need to be re-plastered after they have completely dried out. Homeowners and young family unable to live in the house for at least 6 months. First thing the home insurance company looked at was the clause concerning plastic pipe. Luckily they were covered so sent out their surveyor. This is ongoing and the family will not be in their home over Christmas.

I too have ripped out uggings of plastic pipe installed on heating systems that have blocked with magnetite, in 15mm & 22mm.

Personally I don't like the idea of o-rings used to seal pipe to fittings etc.

For what it's worth, I have seen a pressure test on a combination of end feed fittings, compression fittings and a broken 15mm speedfit cap end (broken grab ring carefully re-assembled and pushed onto the pipe), tested to 60bar, behind closed doors in a different room. It was a compression fitting that blew, and by eck did it go!!

James.

 

[Richardthe3rd]

I'm hearing more and more about hep2o fittings letting go within 2 years after the '10 year warranty'. Am I worried? No, I never install plastic pressure pipework. But saying that, I do feel for the unfortunate people who, through no fault of their own, experience flood damage caused by such failures. I believe, for the cost of installing pipework, you'd expect it to last a lifetime. Anyone who works on boiler repairs, knows how o-rings degrade and lose their flexibility.

Rant (if you would call it that), over.

James.

We work for a number of National Developers and use loads of Pushfit, in particular Hep2o.

We follow manufacturers guidelines
We don't mix Plasitc Pipe / fittings manufacturers on the same system
We pressure test before handover
We have very lfew issues with plastic.

The majority of problems with Pushfit are down to installer error (no insert, pipe not pushed fully in, scored pipe, dirt and grit under the "O" ring)

We have not heard of fittings "letting go" if installed correctly.

Also are you sure you are talking about Hep2o and not confusing with Plastic Plumbing in general, (because there is some cheap rubbish about) because you are quoting a 10 year warranty, Hep2o carries a 50 year warranty, including the "O" rings.

Most house bashing Plumbers use Hep2O, it's a quality product & one of the best systems. With the grab ring at the entry point, a fitting will leak but not blow. As you correctly state; most problems are down to installation error.

 

[Richardthe3rd]

Hi guys, thanks all for your input. Ok full story of one scenario that has occurred:

Homeowners (chap is in the plumbing & heating trade and is no fool) were away for the weekend. They arrive back to house with water everywhere. Isolated water supply and the faulty fitting was identified as a Hep2o installed on the cold mains supply to a first floor WC, yes Hep2o not speedfit or polyplumb, etc. The fitting failed on the side where Hep2o plastic pipe had been fully inserted into the fitting. So this is clearly a grab ring failure. The side where copper tube had been inserted was ok. Contacted manufacturers, to which they stated that that particular fitting had a 10 year warranty (house and system is 12 years old). The pipe had a longer warranty. Builder came out and said that the house is basically written off, all walls need to be re-plastered after they have completely dried out. Homeowners and young family unable to live in the house for at least 6 months. First thing the home insurance company looked at was the clause concerning plastic pipe. Luckily they were covered so sent out their surveyor. This is ongoing and the family will not be in their home over Christmas.

I too have ripped out uggings of plastic pipe installed on heating systems that have blocked with magnetite, in 15mm & 22mm.

Personally I don't like the idea of o-rings used to seal pipe to fittings etc.

For what it's worth, I have seen a pressure test on a combination of end feed fittings, compression fittings and a broken 15mm speedfit cap end (broken grab ring carefully re-assembled and pushed onto the pipe), tested to 60bar, behind closed doors in a different room. It was a compression fitting that blew, and by eck did it go!!

James.

But James you can't state for certain it's the fitting at fault.

 

[Richardthe3rd]

Frankly if there was a national problem insurance companies would have a clause in their PL insurance stating that this type of work was excluded or not covered. As stated with Hot Work by some companies.

 

[JBPHS]

Frankly if there was a national problem insurance companies would have a clause in their PL insurance stating that this type of work was excluded or not covered. As stated with Hot Work by some companies.

Some house insurance policies do exclude cover relating to failure due to plastic pipe, (as stated in my previous comment).

Same with PLI's some only cover for 6 months after installation.

We are talking about a fitting that has completely come away from the pipe, not just a slight drip.

I know that a lot of you guys will still think it's the bees knees, how do you know any different if you don't see it for yourselves.

I have a very strong opinion about plastic pipe and is well documented. Cases like these will only strengthen my opinion. We all say that customers get what they pay for, this is no different.

James.

 

[JBPHS]

Hi guys, thanks all for your input. Ok full story of one scenario that has occurred:

Homeowners (chap is in the plumbing & heating trade and is no fool) were away for the weekend. They arrive back to house with water everywhere. Isolated water supply and the faulty fitting was identified as a Hep2o installed on the cold mains supply to a first floor WC, yes Hep2o not speedfit or polyplumb, etc. The fitting failed on the side where Hep2o plastic pipe had been fully inserted into the fitting. So this is clearly a grab ring failure. The side where copper tube had been inserted was ok. Contacted manufacturers, to which they stated that that particular fitting had a 10 year warranty (house and system is 12 years old). The pipe had a longer warranty. Builder came out and said that the house is basically written off, all walls need to be re-plastered after they have completely dried out. Homeowners and young family unable to live in the house for at least 6 months. First thing the home insurance company looked at was the clause concerning plastic pipe. Luckily they were covered so sent out their surveyor. This is ongoing and the family will not be in their home over Christmas.

I too have ripped out uggings of plastic pipe installed on heating systems that have blocked with magnetite, in 15mm & 22mm.

Personally I don't like the idea of o-rings used to seal pipe to fittings etc.

For what it's worth, I have seen a pressure test on a combination of end feed fittings, compression fittings and a broken 15mm speedfit cap end (broken grab ring carefully re-assembled and pushed onto the pipe), tested to 60bar, behind closed doors in a different room. It was a compression fitting that blew, and by eck did it go!!

James.

But James you can't state for certain it's the fitting at fault.

Oh yes, because it could have been installed on the wrong type of WC or does the external wall have the wrong type of insulation?

Plastic fitting, connected to same brand of plastic pipe (evidence of it being fully inserted into said fitting), with same brand of pipe insert (fully inserted) failed, FACT!

It's ok putting your blinkers on and saying it could be dirt, etc. Get a grip, it held for 12 years them suddenly goes, fully. No small leak/drip before complete failure.

James.

 

[SandyLyon]

I be interested to know what generation of fitting it was.

The early ones where "0" ring first the later Grab first, some had a metal grab rings others a white or green wedge.

To my knowledge Hep2o has never had a 10 year warranty, and fittings / pipe made 12 years would have a 50 year warranty.

How can you be sure it was installed "Full Socket" first time, the only way to tell is under a microscope in a lab to measure how far up the pipe the grab was made, a visual inspection isn't conclusive.

 

[Richardthe3rd]

I be interested to know what generation of fitting it was.

The early ones where "0" ring first the later Grab first, some had a metal grab rings others a white or green wedge.

To my knowledge Hep2o has never had a 10 year warranty, and fittings / pipe made 12 years would have a 50 year warranty.

How can you be sure it was installed "Full Socket" first time, the only way to tell is under a microscope in a lab to measure how far up the pipe the grab was made, a visual inspection isn't conclusive.

I can only agree Sandy. Is the insurance company taking it to court? Was the pipe & fitting examined by an expert??