Help! Architrade holding in double glazing?

[Lusi83]

First our double glazing is a bit dodgy - have been told they are good quality but have been really really badly fitted.
All the windows are lined with wood board and then there is architrade around the window on the inside...
I am about to have my ancient kitchen replaced and for various reasons - to do with worktop height/wood and water/mouldy joints -the architrade on the window/door unit has to go - and so then has the lining board.
The lining board was silconed to old wallpaper. On the sides there was a gap of approx 2cm between the bricks and the frame. On the top there is a gap of 3+ cms...I can see daylight through the silicon seal on the outside...
The whole unit is approx 2.5 m wide and the only support I can see at the top is a fixing screw almost in the middle my dad put in (because the unit was moving in the wind! when we first moved in) and a thin plastic strap that was screwed to the plaster ..but not attached to the window at all...with such a big gap the fixing screw can only go into the brick by approx 1cm.
Ok so is this normal? Is it safe? Was the board there to support it in some way? Can I just fill the gap with some expanding foam and get the plasterer to fill in and then cover the remaining gap with a piece of moulding?
Also if this isn't safe -do I need to check out all the windows in my house - thinking mainly of one of the living room windows (2.5 by 2m almost to floor level..my children sit on the ledge...or worse the upstairs windows)
Thanks

 

[Richard C]

I appreciate you have inherited the windows but it sounds like a complete lash up carried out by a load of bodgers to me;
• the window is too small for the opening which begs the question, what are the rest like!
• using architrave around the inside to cover the gaps around the frame is a total bodge
• you should never be able to see daylight between the frame & the wall if it’s been installed & sealed correctly.
• you don’t silicone wall board to wallpaper, another total bodge
• there should be frame fixings all around the fame into the wall, at least 3 on the vertical sides & 1cm is nowhere near enough depth, proper frame fixings must be used. You have virtually no security & a burglar could probably lever the whole thing out with a garden spade; a popular little trick!
• Apart from the security of the frames themselves, you MUST check that the large window where your kids sit has safety glass fitted (usually a kite mark or “safety glass” in one corner), as required by Building Regulations; this must be used in & around doors & where the window sill is below 8cm from the floor.

How old are the windows? Is the company still trading? Where you given a FENSA certificate &/or warranty for them when you moved in (usually a requirement for mortgage advance for any installation since 2002)?

It may just be poor fitting on one window but I would advise you get someone who knows what they are looking to check out the whole installation; depending on what they find will dictate what, if anything, you can do to rectify any poorly installed units.

 

[Lusi83]

Thanks for that ...especially with my typo (!!!!- obviously have 'trades' on the brain)
Doesn't surprise me that they are a bodge job ...

The date on the units is 1996. They were here when we bought the house in 2000. And when we contacted the previous owner (who had them fitted - not who we bought the house off) we discovered the fitters had disappeared off the face of the earth - so much for a 10yr guarantee...
It was a (not very good!) double glazing saleman who recommended I try and get them fixed rather than replaced. All the units are good quality - still sealed (no condensation problems), big space between the glass etc but the frames are slightly warped -by poor fitting I was told.
I really struggled to get someone to fix them - the only guy who I could get did a really bad job ...I have bought and put new (thicker) gasket around them...which made it a wee bit better -on this kitchen window I filled the gap between the window and frame with expanding foam and sealed it shut..the gap was approx 5mm on one edge...

There are a couple of fixes on the sides - but just the 1 cm in the top -have now filled this space with expanding foam - planning to try and sweet talk the kitchen fitter (who should have a better drill than I have!) to make some holes so I can put a couple of the biggest fixers I can in the top. Will have to break the seal on the window ..but I have lots of expanding foam left

I can't see a kitemark on the glass - there was something between the glass (with the date on) - can't see it now but it might be because it is dark...
I think I need to reconsider replacement - it is just a shame when the units are so good -also I would like do it gradually but they are dark brown uPVC and I'd like to change to white -and I'm in the process of spending an escalating small fortune on a kitchen!

 

[Richard C]

The date on the units is 1996. They were here when we bought the house in 2000. And when we contacted the previous owner (who had them fitted - not who we bought the house off) we discovered the fitters had disappeared off the face of the earth - so much for a 10yr guarantee...

Not unusual; the company who fitted the windows to my own house just 3 years ago have now gone bust, a real shame as they were a very good local company. I have the benefit of an independent warranty but many of those aren’t worth much either; I also have the benefit that I am able to both install and repair myself if I chose to.

It was a (not very good!) double glazing saleman who recommended I try and get them fixed rather than replaced. All the units are good quality - still sealed (no condensation problems), big space between the glass etc but the frames are slightly warped -by poor fitting I was told.
I really struggled to get someone to fix them - the only guy who I could get did a really bad job ...I have bought and put new (thicker) gasket around them...which made it a wee bit better -on this kitchen window I filled the gap between the window and frame with expanding foam and sealed it shut..the gap was approx 5mm on one edge...

At least the salesman attempted to do the right thing rather than just tying to sell you a whole load of new windows. To fit them properly will, in all probability, require complete removal first. The brick openings may need lining if the windows have been made far too small & the fixings must be packed either side or the frame will distort when the fixings are tightened; this may be what you now have & if they have been like that for any length of time, the frames may be permanently distorted & so will never fit properly & the opening windows will catch. Then there is the internal making good around the frame inside & out & plastering internally to finish it all off!

There are a couple of fixes on the sides - but just the 1 cm in the top -have now filled this space with expanding foam - planning to try and sweet talk the kitchen fitter (who should have a better drill than I have!) to make some holes so I can put a couple of the biggest fixers I can in the top. Will have to break the seal on the window ..but I have lots of expanding foam left

Less reputable fitters often don’t bother with the top frame fixings because of the lintel over the window. The materials they can be made from means a standard drill won’t do so well & won’t touch a steel lintel so it takes more time & effort to drill them. Not quiet sure what you men by “having to break the seal on the window”, the fixings are drilled through the frame!

These are the fixings you want; length will depend on the depth of the frame &, in your case, need to take account of the excessive gaps;
http://www.screwfix.com/search.do;j...rset=UTF-8&howMany=15&fh_search=frame+fixings

Remember the frame must be packed either side of any new fixings or it will distort when they are tightened.

I can't see a kitemark on the glass - there was something between the glass (with the date on) - can't see it now but it might be because it is dark...

Safety glass has been mandatory since 1991 so it should have been fitted in locations where Building Regs requires it but it’s not unheard of for DG companies to fit standard glass in order to save money; it’s illegal but who checks if they are self certifying & things were rather more cavalier back in 1996! This link shows where safety glass should be fitted;
http://www.double-glazing-uk.co.uk/Safety_glass.asp
For safeties sake, I would suggest you concentrate on these windows as a priority if you have young children.

I think I need to reconsider replacement - it is just a shame when the units are so good -also I would like do it gradually but they are dark brown uPVC and I'd like to change to white -and I'm in the process of spending an escalating small fortune on a kitchen!

The problem with getting windows replaced one at a time is the cost will be significantly higher as DG firms don’t want jobs replacing one off windows & when you consider the self employed fitters can be paid as little as £50-£70 to fit per window, they generally won’t want to know either. Be aware that if you replace windows & doors, you need to use a FENSA registered company who will issue a certificate of compliance or you will have to notify your local council & pay a fee for them to inspect in order to get the necessary compliance certificate; the fee is around £70 & you don’t want to be paying that for every window! The units are now 13 years old & although they may still have some years of useful life left if good quality, its’ a question of finding someone with the necessary knowledge whose willing got do it.

You may be better just living with them for the remaining few more years of life they have left in them & save up to get the lot replaced & finished off properly. In this case my advice would always be to get quotes from & use a small local companies, preferably on personal recommendation. I would avoid the large national names like the plague; they don’t give particularly good value for money & are the ones who seem to have the biggest problems with shoddy installation.