Help please. New uPVC window frame is not straight

[fluff29]

Hi there

Looking for some advice. We got 2 new window put in on friday. I have noticed that one of the windows when you look at it face on, the uPVC frame on the left hand side is not straight (fixed pane of glass on this side of the window). The top of the frame (last 5 inches) bends slightly out towards the edge of the frame away from the glass. The glass looks to be held properly by the frame just that it is bent.

My husbands first thought was that the window didn't fit at the bottom and has bent inwards toward the glass when the window was forced into place. I don't think this is possibly as the glass would surely stop it and the opening pane of glass on the opposite side of the window is opening fine.

Is it ok to have a window frame with a bend in it or could this cause problems in the future?

Many thanks for your time

Fluff

 

[Burnerman]

It sounds like the windows were fitted at the speed of light with minimal care...I think you should call the fitters back to put it right. Only my opinion, but double glazed units fail to often anyway, without any extra strain being put on the glass envelope.
John

 

[fluff29]

Thanks burnerman

I have attached a picture, would you mind having a look and give your opinion as to whether this is anything to worry about?

We put a straight edge up the frame to show where the frame bends out.

I would also add that there is a gap between the black rubber and the glass (enough to get a piece of thick glass in the gap with ease) in this corner and also on the same pane of glass of the opposite side half way down the glass. There is no gap on the other pane of glass or on the other window.


Would this gap allow the inside of the window to steam up with condensation in the future? I am unsure if this gap or the bend compromises the frame or the glass.

Any thoughts would be appreciated as we are contacting the owner of the company tomorrow.

thanks

fluff

 

[fluff29]

View media item 17340
Sorry have never uploaded an image here before. hopefully this is it now.

 

[crank39]

I would get them back to put it right, having fitted dozens of frames myself i would say this one is tight in height and has been forced in. There should be a 5mm gap all the way around the glass thats why it still fits in, but only just now by the look of it

 

[fluff29]

thanks waftycranker39

This is what we think but wanted the opinion of others who were more knowing in the field of double glazing.

My husband thinks that the vertical frame is too long and the guy has bent it to make it fit the horizontal frame in the top left corner. Therefore a manufacturing error.

Getting the guy out tonight anyway.

Many thanks

Fluff

 

[crank39]

Let them come back out and look at it, they may already know why as you can't leave a job having not noticed that. It may be something daft or it might be something more tricky to fix, either way its an eye sore.

If the frame is too tall then it has to come back out and be trimmed down in height, also don't think they are fobbing you off if this is the problem, sometimes during the manufacuring process as the corner mitres are heated and compressed together to form the joint they aren't compressed for long enough meaning you end up with a frame a few mm wider or taller than was asked for, if this is the case its normal to trim the frame down, it has 5mm deep ribs that run all the way around the frame and its common practice to trimm these off in such cases.

But thats if thats the problem,keep us informed

 

[fluff29]

Hi waftycranker

I spoke to the owner again. Until his fitter sees the window, he is not sure. He thinks that the black gasket is twisted and this is giving the illusion that the window frame is twisted. Will need to wait until tonight and get the fitters opinion.

I will let you know the outcome.

Fluff

 

[Burnerman]

Methinks the window frame is slightly too large for the aperture, its tight towards the middle or bottom and has caused the bend to show there.
Another possibility is that he has put a framing screw in that corner, and he's overtightened it, again causing the frame to bend.
Regarding the black gasket, it sure doesn't look like an illusion to me so please don't be put off by any scientific nonsense...compare it with the window other side and ask the fella why its not the same there.
John

 

[fluff29]

Hi guys

A quick update as the fitter came around last night.

He is going to remove the glass from the window. He will refit a new black gasket as it says that it has warped.

He thinks that the reason that the frame is bend is because there is something pushing the frame out half way down the middle. He thinks that he will be able to remove the obstruction and this will take the bulge out in the middle.

I put a spirit level in the middle of the frame last night and did not see any significant bulge.

He is hoping that the window frame will not need removed. He is coming back on thurday to do the work.

I have attached another phone which shows the frame abit further down.

View media item 17341
Thanks again for everyone's help.

Fluff

 

[fluff29]

Hi guys

Latest update. The fitter came around today while we were at work. He supposed to come in the afternoon so that my husband saw him when he came home, but did the work in the morning instead.

The black rubber which fits between the white frame and the glass still has a gap. A piece of card can be fitted in the space in various places and a piece of paper can be fitted between the glass and rubber all around this pane of glass. This can't be done on the other pane or the other window.

Husband phone owner as not too happy. The fitter came on the phone and said that he refitted the rubber and removed a piece of cement from behind the frame. He thinks the window is now ok. The frame is now straighter but not perfect, still bends slightly in at the top by about 2-3 mm. The biggest worry is the gap between the rubber and glass.

Also, the fitter has damaged the frame on the vertical and top horizontal part where he has put his tool in to remove the plastic bit of frame. I only saw this after coming in from work.

The frame maker is coming around with a square rule on monday to check frame and will make a new frame if necessary.

Obviously has damaged part of the frame anyway, so I will be looking for this to be replaced anyway.


Should there be gap between the rubber and glass and what are the implications of this? Could I get condensation between the glass in future years?

thanks

fluff

 

[crank39]

Fluff please bear in mind we cannot see your frame in the flesh so all replies are educated guesses.

1/ If the frame is still bent then its still wrong, whatever the solution is. Its been sealed on the inside with clear silicone against the wood yes/no? Surely this would need cutting with a knife to allow the pvc frame to spring back, my guess he hasn't done this

2/ Which rubber did the fitter change, int or ext? Assuming its externally beaded (looking at your pic) did he change the inner one, if thats the case then he removed your glass to get to it, effectively having access to your house while you weren't their, i would have got sacked for that in any of the 20 years i've been fitting, a big no no!

3/ If you have a gap between the rubber and the glass then its the wrong thickness rubber OR the double glazed unit is to thin, if it was ok before then the fitter has changed it today but fitted the wrong size rubber. They are turning a simple job into something complicated

 

[fluff29]

will try to answer best I can.

1. the frame/wood is sealed with white silicone. This may have been cut - not to sure. The white frame has a flat section next to the silicone (as you look at it) with a 2nd curved section which curves into the glass. Looks like the fitter prised the curved section off with a tool or screwdriver and this is why the flat section has now been damaged. The flat section is the same distance from the wood all the way down. It is the curved piece which is bent slightly.

2. I am assuming that he changed the internal bead as this was the problem area. I wouldn't have thought that changing the external bead would make any difference when the prob is in the inside. We had to give him a key to get in. Was the only option as I have no holidays left and really need this work done. He would have done all the work from the outside if we didn't give him the key and he joked that he could easily get into our house but wouldn't do this without our consent.

3. The rubber had a gap when it was fitting. This has not improved. He was supposed to fit a new bead today but not sure if he did from looking at the outcome.

thanks again for your thoughts

fluff

 

[Burnerman]

I think you are being fed a complete pack of nonsense here.....'rubber gaskets being distorted'? On a new window? If they have been displaced they would push back into shape again.
The only good result here will be to have a complete new window - with glazing panel if necessary - made and fitted. Hopefully this time a) the measurements will be correct b) the fitter will pack out any masonry gaps before securing the frame to prevent its distortion.
If the window is left this way, you'll probably get water penetration at some point - the glazing panel longevity may be compromised but this is normally only caused by a twist in the frame - it should be perfectly square in every plane.
Hope you get it sorted soon - what a pain this is.
John

 

[crank39]

1. the frame/wood is sealed with white silicone. This may have been cut - not to sure. The white frame has a flat section next to the silicone (as you look at it) with a 2nd Looks like the fitter prised the curved section off with a tool or screwdriver and this is why the flat section has now been damaged. The flat section is the same distance from the wood all the way down. It is the curved piece which is bent slightly.

From the pic the curved section you refer to looks like its part of the frame and not a removable bead, id say it was an externally beaded window looking at the pic. If it is a bead and is warped then its an easy job, just cut a new length of bead from the manufacturer, although i still see the frame as bowed, but the repair on the frame from the screwdriver still needs sorting, i know how to dissapear these but i wonder if they do, be intresting to see what they do, white silicone probably.

2. I am assuming that he changed the internal bead as this was the problem area. I wouldn't have thought that changing the external bead would make any difference when the prob is in the inside. We had to give him a key to get in. Was the only option as I have no holidays left and really need this work done. He would have done all the work from the outside if we didn't give him the key and he joked that he could easily get into our house but wouldn't do this without our consent.

Again, my guess its externally beaded, he would have had to remove the external bead to remove the glass to be able to remove the rubber that was supposedly warped, it won't be beaded on both sides, its one or the other. Also how else could he easily get into your house if its not externally beaded. His customer facing skills leave a lot to be desired, like you've just bought 2 windows from them and the fitter is saying he can get into your house easily, I would check to see what you signed for as it appears you 'MAY' have an externally beaded window when you were acctually sold an internal, external are cheaper.

3. The rubber had a gap when it was fitting. This has not improved. He was supposed to fit a new bead today but not sure if he did from looking at the outcome.

If you can fit card in between the glass and the rubber then something is wrong, either wrong size rubber, wrong size unit or wrong size bead, effectivly your glass is loose in the frame when really the bead and both rubbers should clamp the glass tight if not it will rattle in and out, it will also let water in past the outer rubber and water will sit in the bottom part of the frame and it will be draughty and will howl and whistle when the wind gets up


Sorry to go on but i hate it when guys like this do shoddy work as it brings the whole DG trade down , i've been in the trade for 20 years and the last 12 of them was a service engineer, i wouldn't have made my 3 month trial all them years back with work like this, lets see what the window manufacturer says when he comes out but i suspect he won't slate the fitting and he certainly won't admit to his window being bowed.

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