hmmm...

[PrinceofDarkness]

I've habitually attempted suicide by working 'live' these past fifty years or so, but I just haven't managed it. I suppose a social worker or trick-cyclist might interpret this as a 'cry for help'........

But the fact is, that it's so much more useful and less time-consuming to keep a circuit energised when fault-finding or taking measurements etc. There's nothing wrong with this if you know what you're doing.

Some of you take HSE rules too seriously that I wonder how on Earth you make a living..........


Lucia.

 

[vv2806]

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/buildingregulations/approveddocuments/partp/approved

page 7

"When not necessary to involve building control bodies

0.7 It is not necessary to give prior notification of proposals to carry out electrical installation work to building control bodies in the following circumstances:

a. The proposed installation work is undertaken by a person registered with an electrical self-certification scheme …

OR

b. The proposed electrical installation work is non-notifiable work of the type described in Table 1 and does not include the provision of a new circuit (see schedule 2B of the Regulations)."

I am not an electrician, so all those schemes are indeed lacking me but this does not mean it is illegal for me to carry out electrical installation works if I notify the LABC or do non-notifiable works only.


[/b]

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Sorry back, I'm not going to suggest diy for electrics to people.

Err...

This is the Electrics UK forum on a DIY advice site.

Given your position, WTF are you doing here, you ******?

That is Illegal.

Oh - PLEASE tell us which law makes it so.

And besides, Live work is called for and I'm sure that many among you will have conducted it at various stanges in your career's.

Do you regard testing as "work"?

Of course I work dead whenever feasible (which is most of the time) but little in this industry is as cut and dry as suggested and its misleading to they DIY types this site attracts no?

So what do you suggest?

Lie to people, or refuse to give them any advice because you don't think they can understand the truth and it's less effort for you to do that? What are you, a plumber or something?

 

[vv2806]

besides vv208, the earlier comment you quoted me on before,trying to say its not true, is the verbatum forming part of the corse content for the 2391. the 2391 is what we call an 'exam' its a difficult concept but it involves actually learning stuff and not just making it up to sound clever.

Darling Zeus95100, having worked in universities for more than 20 years, I can ensure you that not everything that is a part of a course content is 100% correct, especially if quoted out of the overall context. And thank you for enlightening me about what an exam is

 

[ban-all-sheds]

And no sorry its not illegal to advise people on how to DIY their own electrics if you want to be pedantic, it is illegal for those unskilled persons to then carry out the works they are advised to do.

Is it?

Please consider my earlier request revised - PLEASE tell us which law makes it illegal for those unskilled persons to then carry out the works you advise them to do.

They are also required to carry out proper testing and issue certificates to validate this has been done. Is that clearer?

Please define "required".

 

[PrinceofDarkness]

Good grief BAS, you don't half go on......


Lucia.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

*From the 1st January 2005, all electrical work in dwellings will need to comply with Building Regulations Part P requirements and be carried out by persons who are competent to design and undertake the work.

Is that a quote from a law?

If so, would you please tell us which one?

Persons considering undertaking electrical work using unqualified installers or on a DIY basis are required to contact a competent electrician/installer

When you say "required", what exactly do you mean?

who would be willing to provide a BS7671 Completion Certificate for them

Will you please tell us what a "BS7671 Completion Certificate" is?

Building Control will request sight of, and preferably a copy of, a BS7671 Completion Certificate before being able to issue any Final certificate under the Building Regulations.

Who says so?

Long and short of it? well come on you work it out.

I'm trying to, but I'm finding it difficult to reconcile your imaginings with the facts.

Some one who isn't competent shouldnt be working on electrics.

See? Some of what you say makes perfect sense.

Other parts of it though....

 

[ELZ4742]

Good grief BAS, you don't half go on......


Lucia.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

besides vv208, the earlier comment you quoted me on before,trying to say its not true, is the verbatum forming part of the corse content for the 2391.

Let's see....

it is illegal for those unskilled persons to then carry out the works you advise them to do.
To work on electrical systems in the UK the practitioner must be suitable skilled, experienced and knowlegable with the wiring system they are going to work with. They are also required to carry out proper testing and issue certificates to validate this has been done. Is that clearer?

That is not true either. Those unskilled persons can legally carry out works that are not notifiable or even works that are notifiable provided the persons in question notify the LABC in advance.

Please tell us - is the is the verbatum (sic) forming part of the corse (sic) content for the 2391 a law?

the 2391 is what we call an 'exam' its a difficult concept but it involves actually learning stuff and not just making it up to sound clever.

You would do well to dwell on your own words, particularly the last 14 in that sentence....

 

[skenk]

the 2391 is what we call an 'exam' its a difficult concept but it involves actually learning stuff and not just making it up to sound clever.

You would do well to dwell on your own words, particularly the last 14 in that sentence....

Zeus95100: If you pursue this you WILL lose! BAS and many others have explained and discussed the ins and outs of what is actually on the statute book and what is advice, guidance, non-statutory etc. etc. MANY times. You may have some points to be made about how electricians work but believe me will lose in any argument about what's legal and what isn't.

 

[wingcoax]

The main point of contention seems to be whether it is legal to work live. If it is illegal why do large conglomerates, I;e National grid gas make us wear gloves when working?

 

[The Dentist]

Where can I get these gloves from, they sound wonderful

I have to work live occasionally, I dont particularly like doing it, but is just too inconvenient sometimes to swith off a complete board for work on a single circuit MCB, while I would not trust a pair of gloves to handle the bare ends of live conductors, it would be nice to know that if i accidentally touched that live busbar with my little pinky, i may get a second chance

 

[bernardgreen]

I am looking at some birds perched happily on 11,000 volt overhead bare wires. While their feet are in direct contact with 11,000 volts there is no danger as no other part of the bird is in contact with any other conductor so there is no complete circuit so no current can flow. No current through the body means no danger. But if two birds perched on different phases got to touch each other then there would be a circuit and two dead or severely shaken birds.

Higher voltages create corona discharges which causes a current flow through the body which makes it uncomfortable for the bird to perch there.

So provided the electrician is not in contact with earth or any other circuit path a single contact to a live conductor has a very low risk

DO NOT TEST THAT THEORY, there may be a sneak circuit to earth or neutral that you missed

With the right knowledge working live is a low risk activity

BUT WORKING ON LIVE CIRCUITS IS NOT A DIY ACTIVITY

 

[davelx]

I recall that when my DNO changed my cast iron cut-out to a new plastic one, they wore gloves that looked just like normal surgical latex. I remember thinking that it would be very easy to puncture a glove with a strand of wire.

 

[Spark123]

NOT ADVICE FOR THE DIYERS!
Live working gloves are a bit thicker than normal rubber gloves, they are available here: http://www.cablejoints.co.uk/sub-product-details/live-hot-working-sticks-gloves-tools
You also need to do a risk assessment taking into account things like risk of moltern metal splatter, arcing, risk to others etc.
A pair of rubber gloves isn't going to save you from that.
Best advice is to work dead unless it is absolutely necessary to work live, then only after applying a risk assessment, the level of risk assessment dependent on the task being carried out.