How Long Would it Take Tiled Floor to Crack Up After Water Leak?

[laminateman1010]

I am currently trying to get insurers to pay out for a water leak from a washing machine that damaged my tiled floor. When the leak initially occurred I noticed water bubbling up from under the tiles. It dried out, and I didn’t immediately detect any damage to the floor.

However, 4 months later, I noted that in the area of the water leak, the tile grout was beginning to crack and 2 tiles have become loose.

The insurers have rejected my claim based on the 4 month delay in spotting/reporting the damage. They are claiming that a more recent water leak has caused the damage (there has been no recent water leak.)

So my question is, how long do you reckon it would take for grout to crack, and tile to become loose after a leak?

Thanks.

 

[KenGMac]

laminateman1010, good evening.

OK up front I work as an Insurance Claims Surveyor, on a freelance basis.

What should have happened during the Insurance Inspection of the Escape of Water event was that the Surveyor, or Loss Adjuster should have tested the floor tiles, OK most moisture meters are not reliable on ceramic tiles, but if you run them over the joints it is possible to get a reading[of some sort?]

Question? do the floor tiles run to the walls? or stop just under the base kick plates? important, because in an escape of water claim the water that has escaped will in effect "dam up" against the floor tiles if the tiles do not go all the way under the units to the wall? The damming up effect will encourage the water to percolate between tile and what ever is below the tiles?

As for your original question, that being time scales between the Escape and tile failure?? a lot will depend on volume of water that has escaped, and what the tiles [see above ref. tile termination] are actually fixed down on, it could be ply. or even hardboard?? there may not be anything, it could be a concrete slab??

Can you recall informing the insurer of the water bubbling up between the tiles? more importantly, do you have any sort of written record of that discussion?

Suggest you go back to the Insurer and argue the above??

If that fails? in effect the insurer has now admitted that damage has occurred to the tiles, in their opinion by some sort of a "Second leak?" simply request that they, by their own admission pay for repairs to the tiles, downside is this will result in another Excess to pay + your premiums will rise next renewal [that is why Compare the Market is available???]

Ken.

 

[laminateman1010]

Hi Ken. Thanks for the reply. The surveyor that came out to assess the damage, did place a moisture meter on the wood directly under the washing machine. It had totally dried out (as the leak occurred 4 months previously.) I suppose this evidence goes against the claim by the insurers that the leak was more recent!

The surveyor did not place the moisture meter on the grouted joints of the tiled floor.

As for your question, the tiles do not run all the way up to the wall; they only run up to the kick plate, and as a result probably experienced the ‘dam effect’ you describe. The tiles are fixed down on plywood. I’m no expert but I’d imagine this plywood expanded once it became saturated with water?

I did inform the insurer that the leak was initially spotted with water bubbling up between the tiles. I should have a written record of informing them about this.

Strangely the insurer has sent me a letter stating that ‘the damage is consistent with water having recently escaped from the appliance (i.e. not 4 months ago.) They are effectively admitting in this statement that the water came from the washing machine! However on saying that, they are telling me that this a ‘closed case, and we can no longer assist you.’

I have to point out, that I am not making this claim through my own insurance, but through the insurers of the company that installed the leaking washing machine.

I’d appreciate any other ideas you have on how I can quite rightly get them to pay out! Tonight the first chunk of grout directly in front of the washing machine came loose, and it’s only a matter of time before the rest breaks up.

 

[KenGMac]

laminateman1010, good evening, again.

Understood.

Where to go from here? what you need is records when in [shall I call it a dispute] discussions at this stage with an insurer,
1/. You did exactly the correct thing in intimating a claim against the installer, if you had made a claim via your home insurance the premium would have risen [more than normal]
2/. Do you have a record of when you [intimated] informed this insurance company of a leak occasioned by a faulty installation? would be good if it were in electronic format?
3/. What was the time scale between the appliance being fitted, the leak, or you discovery of the leak? and the time to repair this leak, then the date when you made an insurance claim, and the delay until the insured sent out the Surveyor?
Sub plot to the above is that if the insurer delayed [you mention several months] this will assist your claim? suggest you sit down and compile a date order time scale?

As for the letter? it appears that they have admitted a Liability, What you have to do is to tell them that all the damage that your property has suffered has not been rectified.

It also appears in this letter that the insurer has made [what is called] "A full and Final Settlement" of your claim, as far as the insurer is concerned, they are shot of the claim, they have "paid out" all that they are intending to. Did you ever get a letter or e e mail stating "A full and Final" If you did? was it for the repair of the Appliance, or? was it for the repair to the Property??

Can I suggest you consider the following.
A/. e mail the insurer, the last person in the insurer who contacted you, and [having dragged all the information above] send them a timeline of the events and times.[hopefully there will be large time scales?]
B/. in your e mail explain that the kitchen tiles are in effect now and only now, in a distressed, damaged condition as a direct result of the escape of water from the original fitting of the appliance.

Now? either the insurer will admit liability, or they will decline [I suspect the latter?]

You may then wish to consider making a "Formal Complaint" if the insurer declines your first attempt as above. as an aside a formal complaint in insurance Claims is "An Expression Of Dissatisfaction" [ the insurance industries name for a complaint]

If It were me, I would then make a formal complaint, you will be spun into a "complaints System"

Give the insurers Complaints System two chances, then register a "Chief Executive Complaint"

Welcome to insurance?

Hope some of the above gives some "pointers" and a possible "Road map"

Ken.

 

[laminateman1010]

Thanks Ken for the lengthy reply. It’s midnight just now, so I plan to re-read your response during the day when I will be a bit more alert, and can have a better think about things.

Cheers.

 

[laminateman1010]

Hi Ken

1.I raised the claim through the insurer of the installer because if I did it on my own insurance policy, I would have been subject to a £250 excess. I had already paid £400 for the washing machine, and don’t see why I should pay any excess due to damage it caused.
2.I informed the appliance installer’s insurance company almost immediately after the leak happened.
3.The time scale of the appliance being fitted, and then the leak being discovered was 6 months. Almost immediately on discovery of the leak, the installer replaced the machine free of charge. It was a further 4 months after discovery of the leak that I noted the tiled floor in the area where the water was spotted had started to crack up. The insurance claim and surveyor was also approximately 4 months after the leak was first spotted.

So based on the above, the insurer has not really delayed anything. The delay of 4 months was caused because it took me that amount of time to notice the grout beginning to crack, and tiles becoming loose. This is a process that is continuing, and I expect to worsen with time.

As for insurers ‘accepting liability.’ Well they would appear to have accepted liability for the leak, as they replaced the machine ‘free of charge.’ However, they are claiming that since there was a gap of 4 months between the leak and the damage being reported, the damage could not be linked to the reported leak. They are claiming that the damage was caused by a ‘more recent leak,’ that I can verify never happened. The surveyor used a moisture meter when he came out, and this backs up my claim that no ‘second leak’ occurred.

As it stands, the insurer says I still have the right to launch an appeal even though in an earlier letter they stated that the case was closed. They actually appear to be becoming quite confused (maybe not a bad thing)!

Thanks again.

 

[KenGMac]

laminateman1010, good evening, again.

First you did exactly the correct thing, that being a claim against the installer, as you point out no excess, as an aside i would encourage anyone to follow the same course of action, also [I digress] if your property is damaged by a vehicle, claim the cost of repairs Via the car owners insurance for that vehicle, no excess!!!

Do you have any written communications with the installers insurance regards the tiles and timber being saturated just after you first spotted the leak? or indeed digital [time stamped] images?

As for liability? The insurer is [dare i say?] wavering, this could be because there is a different claims handler involved.

Your very valid point of time delay of 4 months between the event and discovery of tile damage then the appearance of the Insurers Surveyor should be emphasised to the Insurer, as you correctly point out if there was a second leak it should have shown up at the time of the insurance Surveyors visit.

If it were me, I would polity start to press the installers the leak was on-going for some considerable time prior to discovery, the Insurer, point out the above and explain that, OK if the floor were laminate the damage would be next to instantaneous, whereas, because of the water damming [ tiles stopping just below the kick plates] this has allowed the escaping water over a fairly long time to percolate under the ply / tiles, where it will take a long, long time to evaporate, not like the bare flooring below the units that dry out relatively fast, evaporation occurring on both top and bottom of the boards.

Bottom line, you [may??] be in for a long haul here, keep at the insurer, send e mails and phone up for up dates, in effect annoy them, if you do not get a reply to an e mail inside 4 / 5 days. Just keep at it, plod, plod, plod. Send images, loads of them of the tile damage, and images of the tile damage as it increases.

One of the tricks in the arsenal of the Insurer is if we string it out long enough the Punter will go away.

Last thing is that get, the insurer to provide you with a repair company, STRONGLY!!! suggest you don NOT ACCEPT a so called "Cash Settlement" why, because if you accept a cash settlement you are on your own, but if you get the Insurer to send in a Company, the insurer is in charge of them and you will get at least a 6 Month guarantee on workmanship / materials used

Ken