How much and what kind of fluorescent lighting?

[Megalo]

Hi all,

First of all - love the forum and the site. Great resource and have been looking browsing and reading for advice etc... since getting myself on the housing ladder earlier this year, and really starting to understand and do some DIY!

We're now onto the kitchen which is pretty modern and although not to our full taste, is not going to be changed out anytime soon (see photos below).

Untitled

• Megalo
• 22 Oct 2012
• 1

Untitled

• Megalo
• 22 Oct 2012
• 1

Yep - that really is lime green paint! As you can see, the window isn't the largest and during the day it can be quite dingy in here. Hence the reason we are going to paint the walls white, install some coving etc...

At present we have 6 spotlights, each with a 50W halogen lamp in place. Lighting is adequate, but as I sit here writing this, the worksurfaces are poorly lit - especially being black! As the main light source for the kitchen (we have fluorescent under cabinet lights but never use them as they click, and a laminate worksurface when lit which directly shows lots of wipe marks) we would like to get rid of these lights for something more efficient, both in terms of energy consumption and lighting ability.

I have seen the PL lights (credit to Steve and Ban-all-Sheds on the forum) which I do like the look of ( http://www.qwikfast.co.uk/catalogue/high-frequency-electronic-downlight-p-5025.html ) however my concern is that this kitchen will likely be replaced in a few years time. Therefore, I am somewhat reluctant to have large holes chopped out of the ceiling to light areas which use may change, as well as a reflective laminate counter top. Though, we are going to have 2 walls skimmed in here (the one with all the album covers on the wall, and the wall to the right of it as viewed), so a plasterer would be available for the ceiling if required.

So, after several hours reading and contemplating, my mind is now going towards using ceiling mounted (likely not flush due to the hole cutting issues) square fluorescent lighting with 2D lamps. An example of the style I mean is here:

http://www.thelightingsuperstore.co...sh-Light-Fittings/product.asp?productid=35399

How many of these lamps would be needed to light my kitchen? I guess I was planning to put them where the spotlights are at present. The kitchen dimensions are 5.00m (length) x 3.10m (width) x 2.77m (height).

Finally, are these lights the most suitable for my kitchen given all the options available? If I went with the 20mm PL downlights, with 1m spacing, I would need at least 8 given my room's dimensions.

I guess a combination of a couple of PL downlights between the wall with the album covers and the breakfast bar may be a good inbetween scenario with a central, square fluorescent light in the middle of the main work area? A question I have have is would there be a noticeable difference in time between the main light and the PL lights to turn on, given that they would likely be on a single switch.

Thanks for reading, what has quickly turned into an essay!!

 

[martinxxxxxx]

I hate 2d lights, they look sooooooo crap, good for police stations, prisons and car parks but not your kitchen.
Get a couple of diffundi striplight or two. Those holes can easily be made good. Or 32watt circular florescent.
Anyway I am sure other will give you other opinions. Do let us know how you finish up.

 

[ericmark]

Since I could not get a ClassII strip lamp I got a 28W 2D for my parents house which I expected to be not enough. However with there high ceilings it proved to be OK.

With lower ceilings my kitchen with 3 x 60 florescent tubes seems no brighter than my parents house.

This is the problem colour of stuff in the room makes a big difference to light requirements.

The HF versions of 2D lamps are not much more than the induction control but with strip lamps the HF version is far more expensive. Since we use rotating equipment in a kitchen really we should use HF lighting although many don't. Mainly as the DIY sheds don't tend to stock the HF versions.

As a result if I was to do my kitchen I would likely select 2D units.

 

[Megalo]

Thanks for the replies so far. When I mentioned the 2D light, I was probably thinking a CFL light. Whether it has a 2D lamp in it, I am open to suggestions.

Maybe something like this more more like what I was thinking:

http://www.universal-lighting.co.uk...lights/kitchen_ceiling_lights?product_id=1319

I'm not sure if they are 2D or not - I don't have to use 2D if they are generally bad. What I was thinking was that these square ones look more modern, but would be equivalent to the strip light, such as the Diffundi by Thorn mentioned by Martin.

 

[Steve]

Sadly my PL lights are long gone They still worked perfectly, my only criticism was that frequent switching did the lamps no good, and they needed changing after a year. I installed them when I moved in (to replace awful 50w spots on sticks like yours). Then this year I renovated the kitchen and installed a lower ceiling at 8ft (original ceiling was 9ft).

In the new ceiling I fitted 7no. 3 watt LED downlighters, which I am very happy with. Having a new ceiling meant I knew where the joists were, and could run the cables with ease before the boards went on! These are just "background lighting", and for "task" lighting I have a cheap £5 pendant from Ikea, fitted with a 20w globe lamp, over the dining table.

I am thinking of changing the 20w for an 11w at some point, as it is sometimes a bit harsh for dining under. I also fitted three fluorescent link-lights under the wall cupboards, for worktop lighting, and for potential future use, I fitted a point above the wall units for uplighters, because with downlights one of the problems can be that the ceiling gets no light and appears dull. I am thinking about toying with LED strips.

One of the main issues I had with the kitchen is it is north facing and the windows are at one end, which means its sometimes very dull. Previous kitchen had no wall units to make it feel a bit lighter, but I needed more cupboard space so had to install extra lighting. Nevertheless, with clever solutions the total wattage is still much less than what was fitted when I moved in, and less than 100w. I would never fit any kind of halogen lighting. Yuck. Its like going to live in caves.

Are lighting designers in high demand?

 

[Megalo]

Right thanks for the comments. After browsing the options, and avoiding the 2D lamps (probably a good ideas at the Lumen output per watt is less than traditional fluorescent), I'm just going to end up getting a couple of these bad boys:

http://www.massivelighting.eu/saxby-shadow-13979-by-massive-lighting-prod-596.html

Circular fluorescent and looks better than a strip light.

Thanks for your help on this. Now I'm looking at LED downlights for the hallway. Looking at these which seem pretty good:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_In...ownlights_Index/LEDlite_Downlights/index.html

If there's anything else out there that's better in terms of value for money, feel free to let me know!

 

[Steve]

With LEDs in general the more you spend the better the light quality. Those you linked to are fire rated, you dont need this unless in a flat or 3 storey house. And always go for warm white if offered a choice.

 

[Megalo]

Cheers Steve. I reckon by that I need fire rated. I live in a flat which is a converted 3 storey house (we have the top 2 floors). These would be going in the ceiling the entry hall on our lower floor.

Thanks also for the tip on using warm white - I was planning on going for neutral but I recognise that 80% of people go for warm, which must be for a reason.

 

[Steve]

The thing with LEDs is that they are naturally a cold blue white, so i wouldnt choose anything other than warm white. I wouldnt risk it in your case and go for fire rated.

 

[RF Lighting]

Yep I'd agree with Steve there. Warm white is the only way to go for LEDs in a domestic property.

Can you not leave the lighting as it is, or replace the existing for a simple flex drop or similar until you actually redo the kitchen, so you can get the lights in just the right place to suit the new kitchen?

Also I'd expect the price of LEDs to have come down and the quality / performance to have gone up in a couple of years time.

 

[Megalo]

Yep I'd agree with Steve there. Warm white is the only way to go for LEDs in a domestic property.

Can you not leave the lighting as it is, or replace the existing for a simple flex drop or similar until you actually redo the kitchen, so you can get the lights in just the right place to suit the new kitchen?

Also I'd expect the price of LEDs to have come down and the quality / performance to have gone up in a couple of years time.

Just to clarify, I've decided to just switch out the spotlights in my kitchen with a couple of 32W circular T5 fluoresecent lights. I changed the conversation of the thread halfway through to focusing on LED's in my hallway so my apologies.

I reckon once we decide on doing the kitchen, we will likely lower the ceiling and put some recessed LED's in then and work it better for a kitchen we prefer. Like you say, hopefully by such a time, the LED's will have improved and downlights would be more suitable to light a kitchen then.

 

[RF Lighting]

Ah apologies I missed that bit!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I hate 2d lights, they look sooooooo crap, good for police stations, prisons and car parks but not your kitchen.

I bow to your greater knowledge of the inside of police stations and prisons, but I've never seen anything like this in car parks:

Be aware though, Megalo, that any light like that will turn into an insect graveyard.

 

[OwainDIYer]

the advantage of circular lights is you don't have to get the edges parallel to anything.

another option would be to use lighting track, then you can position the lights easily, and have very few fixing holes into the ceiling. You can get CFL floodlights on track
http://www.lightfittingsuk.co.uk/JC...ight-Low-Energy-TC-TE-32W-GX24q-3_A10F8G.aspx

 

[Megalo]

Be aware though, Megalo, that any light like that will turn into an insect graveyard.

Excellent point. Glad I didn't go with that type, despite the wife's insistence!