Surprised nobody mentioned the absence of grommets on the back box...
How old is this cable?
- Thread starter EAST61
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Mate look at the state of that backbox. It's like someone has battered it with a mallet.
It's all gonna be re-done properly.
Looks normal, to me.
Just checked. £1.10 domestic cable, £1.10 lead. Even stevens currently. They seem to have swapped over month on month as to which is more valuable, on the off chance it's 10p more per kilo when I go for a weigh in, it's not worth keeping separate.
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I trust you all have waste carrier licences for transporting this scrap?
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Not any more. But I did have.
I was watching a youtube video (a well known electrical blog) and he was pretty amendment that any wiring circa 40 years old should be replaced, no question.
However, I have often found the answers on this forum a bit mixed on that subject. So, I was wondering, at what point does a rewire, if the installation is not dangerous, become something that should be done due to the pure age of the installation, regardless of condition.
For example, it seems that mid 1970s is roughly when wiring has not really changed much in terms of the standard required by modern regs. I mean this in terms of cable thickness, presence of a suitable earth, PVC coated. In this scenario I would also make the assumption that there were enough sockets in the property.
If all these things are present, and the cables are of the appropriate thickness for the circuits they are used for. Does the pure age of a circuit become something to consider when looking at a re-wire?
Or, if at the end of the day, if a cable passes the required tests, is it pointless considering a rewire?
I am also aware than a ring final wiring design/layout is no longer the preferred method of wiring a house. Does modernising from that set-up bring potential benefits as well?
However, I have often found the answers on this forum a bit mixed on that subject. So, I was wondering, at what point does a rewire, if the installation is not dangerous, become something that should be done due to the pure age of the installation, regardless of condition.
For example, it seems that mid 1970s is roughly when wiring has not really changed much in terms of the standard required by modern regs. I mean this in terms of cable thickness, presence of a suitable earth, PVC coated. In this scenario I would also make the assumption that there were enough sockets in the property.
If all these things are present, and the cables are of the appropriate thickness for the circuits they are used for. Does the pure age of a circuit become something to consider when looking at a re-wire?
Or, if at the end of the day, if a cable passes the required tests, is it pointless considering a rewire?
I am also aware than a ring final wiring design/layout is no longer the preferred method of wiring a house. Does modernising from that set-up bring potential benefits as well?
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As you say, opinions undoutedly vary, and are sometimes 'strong' but my personal opinion, for what it's worth, is that the short answer is 'no' - so long as it's PVC cable (with an earth!) and is exhibiting no problems to most likely of which would be physical damage, I don't think there is currently anything we know that indicates that it should be replaced solely because of its age.
As above, that would be opinion unless/until we discover things (about very long-term behaviour of PVC cables). However, as you say, the reason for 're-wires' is often not primarily because of the cables.
That is certainly another one where there are (often strongly) polarised opinions. We don't 'need' ring finals, and they would probably not be allowed of if they had first been thought of in recent times, but they have given many decades of service in tens of millions of installations without any real problems and, despite what you say, are (I think) probably still the most common type of sockets circuit being installed even today. One would have to think hard to come up with any particularly significant differences, either way, from a householder's perspective.
However, as I said, in relation to both those issues you will come across wildly differing opinions.
Kind Regards, John
Thanks for the attempt to answer, I thought it would be along those lines and I appreciate there are a range of opinions on the subject.
In my scenario, I am planning a rather extensive refurbish to the property. Wired in mid 1970s, the wiring seems sound. The consideration is therefore, to save a bit of money do we incorporate the existing wiring into any new additions and/or changes. Updating only the things that really require updating (consumer unit etc.)
Or, considering the scope of the renovations, is this a false economy in the long term?
As this is likely to be a one off refurb which will probably see the property staying in this state for another 40 years. It it more sensible to start from scratch and re-wire while we are at it. While the cabling maybe fine at age 40 years, is there the potential for issues to crop up in another 20 etc.
Or, as you indicate, if the cables are fine and tests come back good, is there no real benefit.
Decisions....decisions....
In my scenario, I am planning a rather extensive refurbish to the property. Wired in mid 1970s, the wiring seems sound. The consideration is therefore, to save a bit of money do we incorporate the existing wiring into any new additions and/or changes. Updating only the things that really require updating (consumer unit etc.)
Or, considering the scope of the renovations, is this a false economy in the long term?
As this is likely to be a one off refurb which will probably see the property staying in this state for another 40 years. It it more sensible to start from scratch and re-wire while we are at it. While the cabling maybe fine at age 40 years, is there the potential for issues to crop up in another 20 etc.
Or, as you indicate, if the cables are fine and tests come back good, is there no real benefit.
Decisions....decisions....
I'm afraid that's a 'crystal ball' question. As far as I am aware, we currently have no reason to believe that PVC cable (provided it is not exposed to UV light - like outdoors and unprotected), could not remain satisfactorily in service for 100 years or more. On the other hand, in the next decade or two we might start seeing problems with some of the early PVC cables.
Indeed - but, as above, neither of us has a crystal ball. If 'money were no object', the 'safe' course would presumably be to renew all the cabling 'now', whilst an opportunity exists - but few of us mere mortals are really in the 'money is no object' category - so I'm afraid you will just have to make a 'decision' (even if it's not much more than a guess!). I hope that the passage of time shows that you made the right one!
Kind Regards, John
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I used to work with someone who was adamant that wiring should be replaced every 35 years maximum, even PVC.
Personally, I can't see why a plastic-based cable younger than 1975 (to eliminate green goo), and with a cpc, shouldn't last a lot lot longer. Unless......circuits are subject to a higher than average running and or ambient temperature. I remember posting a table here (edit) yonks ago indicating the useful life of a cable installation depending upon temperature.
Personally, I can't see why a plastic-based cable younger than 1975 (to eliminate green goo), and with a cpc, shouldn't last a lot lot longer. Unless......circuits are subject to a higher than average running and or ambient temperature. I remember posting a table here (edit) yonks ago indicating the useful life of a cable installation depending upon temperature.
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Whilst I agree with John and do not believe in doing things just for the sake of it, the likelihood of incorporating the present wiring into a new design may be more trouble than it is worth.
After all, it may be all bits and pieces now.
We can't really know without examining it.
After all, it may be all bits and pieces now.
We can't really know without examining it.
Indeed. I observed earlier that there are often good reasons for a 're-wire' which have nothing to do with the condition and/or life expectancy of the cable.
However, the OP most recently was asking whether I thought that PVC cable should be replaced "just because of its age" - and I gave him my opinion about that (and you seem to agree).
Kind Regards, John
Indeed, any consideration for doing that would be done at the time after an inspection of the current set-up.
I was more speaking in the hypothetical scenario where the existing arrangement checked out.
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