I Know:I'll Write A Letter To A Magazine And Show Myself Up!

[sparkyspike]

What I'm getting at, is that you sometimes take risks. I wasn't going to go and unwire the breaker any more than I would wear gauntlets before using someone's bathroom.

Rubber shoes and insulated ladders are amongst my best friends.

 

[securespark]

Anyone switching a taped up breaker on without making enquires as to why it was taped up deserves a severe yelling at at least!

Are you a qualified spark, Adam? Or sparkyspike?

I know its not the proper way to achieve safe isolation, but sometimes you have to!

You cannot achieve safe isolation with a piece of tape....as has been proved.

What you're saying is that sometimes you have to risk your life while at work. That's not right, surely? You admitted it was a big mistake not to lock off.

For your information, I use the Wylex lockoff device. It doesn't fit all, but fits the vast majority of S and DP switches.

Can I ask SS a question? If you couldn't lock off, what would have been a suitable (and equally safe) alternative?

Sorry, I missed your comment: you knew you could have disconnected the lives at the CU. Why didn't you?

 

[securespark]

Rubber shoes are amongst my best friends.

This is a wind-up, right??

 

[ColJack]

piece of 1.5 solid wire through the holes stops em...

should have a sign saying "caution electricians at work" and "do not touch" hanging off the CU anyway...

 

[securespark]

There should be a locking device involved so that power cannot be restored accidentally.

 

[Goldberg]

Is it just me who thinks that the law is clear on this point?

For example Regulation 14 in the Electricity At Work Regulations "requires that three conditions are met for live working to be permitted where danger may arise. It is stressed that if just one of those conditions cannot be met, live working cannot be permitted and dead working is necessary.

The conditions are:

• it is unreasonable in all the circumstances for the conductor to be dead;

and

• it is reasonable in all the circumstances for the person to be at work on or near that conductor while it is live;

and

• suitable precautions (including, where necessary, the provision of personal protective equipment) have been taken to prevent injury."

When is it ever unreasonable for any consumer-side conductor to be dead when working on it (and I don't count poking in an insulated probe)?

 

[sparkyspike]

Rubber shoes are amongst my best friends.

This is a wind-up, right??

Well, what do you wear?

I love these kind of reactions. I forgot that some electricians were perfect and never took risks.

As well as working as an electrician, I also go sky-diving, scuba diving (sometimes with sharks), extreme mountain biking and skiing. Sometimes an electric shock brightens up my otherwise dull day.

 

[sparkyspike]

You cannot achieve safe isolation with a piece of tape....as has been proved.

I know. I was myself who proved this.

 

[sparkyspike]

you knew you could have disconnected the lives at the CU. Why didn't you?

Because I couldn't be rsed.

 

[sparkyspike]

I use the Wylex lockoff device. It doesn't fit all, but fits the vast majority of S and DP switches.

But not all.

Are you qualified?

 

[Spark123]

You can get locking dollys which will fit almost all of the MCBs and RCDs I have seen.
As for questioning isolation practices - I'd say it very much depends on the circumstances.
At the end of the day - it is you who is responsible for ensuring the isolation is secure. As some have found out placing a piece of sticky tape over a CU isn't very effective.
As securespark works for a company, similar to myself we have set down procedures which we must work to - to ensure the circuit is effectively isolated.
It may be that if he can't secure the MCB or isolator that he must then take out the wires from the MCB so that if it is closed it won't energize the circuit being worked on.
The last time I really got a bad rattle was when a fluorescent fitting was replaced - isolated, secured, tested dead. Only when the neutrals were parted did 230v become apparent on them from a upstream fitting on a different fuse

 

[NotHimAgain]

Spark123 said:

The last time I really got a bad rattle was when a fluorescent fitting was replaced - isolated, secured, tested dead. Only when the neutrals were parted did 230v become apparent on them from a upstream fitting on a different fuse icon_cry.gif

Which tells us that there is no such thing as 'safe isolation', and the sooner people stop believing that there is the better.

Borrowed neutral faults, particularly between different distribution boards, lie in wait for the unwary. Such a fault may be masked by a neutral to earth short circuit and will only become apparent when the 'borrowed' neutral is removed from the neutral bar - most likely during the process of trying to trace a neutral to earth fault.

Always assume that conductors are live, and only touch the copper when you have checked it individually just prior to working on it.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Can I ask SS a question? If you couldn't lock off, what would have been a suitable (and equally safe) alternative?

Is it tie the customer to a chair?

 

[Adam_151]

Is it tie the customer to a chair?

Only if the customer would enjoy it



And is an attractive woman in her 20's

 

[Adam_151]

Seriously now,

Simon, If I can't lock off the breaker (and its a more than a 5 minute job, or if it is a 5 minute job, but there is a risk that someone might turn on a taped up breaker)

Then I'll see if I can lock the door to the room with the DB in, if not I'll remove the phase conductors and connector block them before putting the cover back on

I'm afraid, rightly or wrongly... if I'm just replacing a socket outlet in an empty house or similar, then its just breaker off and tape