Inherent fault with combi boilers?

I'm not disputing there are fuel savings to be had with a new boiler compared to my current one, but the point I'm making is that I don't think there is any overall financial advantage to be gained by scrapping my boiler before it packs up, after adding on installation and other costs such as flushing, chemical additives, updated controls, filter, ..... Or if there are then it's probably negligible.

Our current gas bill is £750 pa (4 years ago it was £600), but that does include oven and hob. The occupancy is 4 people, including an elderly family member, which means the house is usually occupied 24 hrs per day. However cold it gets outside, short sleeved T-shirts are the norm in the house all year round, so we're not exactly keeping fuel costs down. We do have TRVs everywhere, a wall thermostat, and 50mm equivalent foam insulation on the conventional HW cylinder. (House is mid-terraced 1930s, solid brick walls, 100% double glazed, 4 bedrooms).

Installing a new boiler would cost £2300 - £3500 all inclusive I suppose, more if I don't shop around, last only 15 years at best, and save me around £100 - £120 per year on fuel bills during its life. This is based on current costs. Whereas if my present boiler were to last a further 15 years say, I think the calculations show I'll be better off retaining my current boiler, in spite of the higher fuel cost. Of course if it packs up before then I'll have no option but to replace it, and won't have lost out by waiting until that point, so in the meantime I see no financial justification in scrapping it while it performs faultlessly and has the potential to last longer than a brand new boiler.

Based on the above estimates this translates into a net saving of £800 - £2000 if I retain my current boiler and it lasts a further 15 years!
 
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I would expect that using a good boiler like an Intergas the cost would only be about £1600 plus extra if you need to upgrade the cylinder which if old could be losing £200 p.a. in heat losses.

Tony

I dont know where you get your new boiler costs but you clearly have not read my posting above!

With only £750 pa gas consumption the saving will be less and about £200 pa.

Even allowing £50 pa to service the new boiler you still get a return on capital of about 10% on the capital cost. This will rise every year as gas prices increase.

With capital costing only 2-3% that's still a good investment.

Tony
 
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I would expect that using a good boiler like an Intergas the cost would only be about £1600 plus extra if you need to upgrade the cylinder which if old could be losing £200 p.a. in heat losses.

Tony


I dont know where you get your new boiler costs but you clearly have not read my posting above!

Yes, Tony, I did read your posting, and I thank you for the suggestion. As someone who is just a consumer, and not in the trade, I just don't have the confidence to decide in favour of Intergas when in reviews only around half the professionals do recommend it and the other half either don't or say to avoid.

For this reason I'm sticking to WB or Vaillant based on reviews, including the review in Which? magazine. (For my mother's house it would be just the Vaillant now, not WB, after WB confirmed their activation flow rate for DHW is 3.5 - 4 lit/min across all their combi models, which I consider is too high for some situations).

As for installation costs, I obtained 3 quotes to which I added essential extras such as programmer, wireless thermostat, additional pipework, repositioning of boiler, gas replacement from 15mm to 22mm for part of the run, flushing, chemical, magnasomething, etc., which resulted in a minimum all-inclusive cost of £2300. The other 2 quotes came out at £3000 each, provided no pipework needed altering or adding to, so I have factored this in. (The £2300 figure is taken from the cheapest Ebay installers, and the 2 higher quotes from local installers. None are British Gas or equivalent - I'd expect BG to charge £4000 or more for the same work!)

I also pointed out that the existing HW cylinder had excellent insulation (equivalent to 50mm thick foam spray), so negligible heat loss there and nothing like £200 pa you suggest. The age of the HW cylinder does not matter, just the insulation and whether it has a thermostat surely?

Note that the £750 pa on gas bills includes the oven and hob usage. Removing these would mean the true figure for gas used by the boiler alone is probably just £600 - £650 pa, not £750 pa.

Based on all this, and my earlier post, I'm still waiting to be convinced that it makes financial sense to scrap my current Netaheat boiler now, rather than at the point it fails sometime in the future, which hopefully will not be for many years yet! Yes, gas prices will increase, but it's only if/when it causes the breakeven point to be reached before the current boiler packs up that I would need to scrap the present boiler, which appears to have the potential to go on for many years yet. In the meantime I still maintain the figures don't support changing the boiler merely on the grounds that a new one is more efficient!
 
Gas used for cooking is usually totally over estimated!

Firstly the average cooking only uses 1-2 kW whereas the heating is using up to 12 kW.

Then there are the times! Heating is usually on for about 10 hours a day but only 30 min for cooking!

Put those two together and the cooking is unlikely to be more than about 5% of total gas useage as a maximum!

Tony
 
eBay installers and Which? magazine are hardly the basis of an informed decision.... Quite the contrary to be frank.
My reference to eBay installers was for the purposes of obtaining lower end installation quotes, not for informed decisions.

I do however find Which? magazine generally useful and reliable for informed decisions provided they base their findings on factual information. They recently recommended both WB and Vaillant as the clear winners, which is certainly consistent with the views of the 3 CH installers who quoted for me.

I think it is you actually who is way off the mark to make the sweeping comment "Quite the contrary to be frank".
 
I do however find Which? magazine generally useful and reliable for informed decisions provided they base their findings on factual information. They recently recommended both WB and Vaillant as the clear winners, which is certainly consistent with the views of the 3 CH installers who quoted for me.

That would be because manufacturers have to pay Which to feature their boilers. Which is the biggest con going.
 
John, truly, Which? magazine is utter pants.

The reviews are not unbiased and the product range is incredibly limited.

I would recommend the Vaillant over the Worcester any day of the week, but the Intergas and Atag over the Vaillant.

Just my opinion of course. But it is less biased than Which? magazines'.
 
I would recommend a Vaillant or worcester before any obsecure brand

Fundementally important is the back up To be expected from the manufacturer

When these others have a proper team of manufacturers Engineers instead of service agents pehaps they are worth a second glance

This is my opinion.....................................


I think claiming that which are paid to recommend a certain product could be libelous comment !
 

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