Is there a downlight that can be covered with insulation ?

[mikric]

This has been covered in lots of previous posts regarding not covering downlights but could anyone please help me to solve an argument, I am a BCO and always ask for insulation to be removed around downlights, A electrician has installed some downlights on a job and insists that they can be covered by insulation.
I have requested the manufacturers details to back this up but as far as i am aware there are no downlights available on the market that allow this even low voltage ones. I have googled it, and have only found the fire rated ones, I am aware of the meaning of fire rated ones, that they are to prevent the passage of fire and this has no influence on the fact whether they can safely be covered.
Are any of you Sparks aware of any manufacturers that make them that can be safely covered.
I am actually hopeing to be proved wrong on this one .Any links would be great.Thanks all

 

[gblades]

Even GX53 downlighters which are florescent only say they cannot be covered in insulation.
I have some GX53 lamps in the kitchen and they have a unvented metal case that the bulbs clip into and these stay cool to the touch so it cant be a heat generation issue.

The only thing I can think of is something like these (ignoring any issues with IP ratings) which are surface mounted but thats cheating in a way
http://www.lampspecs.co.uk/Light-Bu...GX53-Surface-Fitting-Silver-Palmlight-Megaman

 

[electronicsuk]

I've not seen any that specifically state it's OK to encapsulate them in insulating material. Whether ELV or LV, dichroic downlights still kick out a fair amount of heat into the air above. Other than providing adequate space around the fitting for ventilation, whether that be by a purpose made cover or removing a chunk of insulation, there's little you can do about that.

Perhaps if the fittings were LED and put out significantly less heat, it might be possible. That said, even LED fittings do dissipate a noticeable amount of heat.

 

[mikric]

Thanks for that. I guess I am right then.
I do not like questioning professional electricians generally as most have more knowledge than I will ever claim to have but thought I may be proved wrong on this one.

 

[disinfo]

He's not used something like this then?

 

[mikric]

No hes used a what think is a fire rated unit and has confused himself into thinking it is safe to cover, although there are clearly holes in the top of the unit that I think are for ventilation. They are similar in appearance to the ones in the link bellow
//www.diynot.com/shop/Fire_Stop_12v_MR16_Adjustable_Fire_Rated_Downlight_C_w_Lamp__White/244838

 

[disinfo]

No hes used a what think is a fire rated unit and has confused himself into thinking it is safe to cover, although there are clearly holes in the top of the unit that I think are for ventilation. They are similar in appearance to the ones in the link bellow
//www.diynot.com/shop/Fire_Sto...ated_Downlight_C_w_Lamp__White/244838[/QUOTE]

Bless him, there is a lot of confusion over fire rated downlights unfortunately.

By the way, if he removed all of the insulation from around the downlights, wouldn't he be in breach of another part of the building regs?

 

[Taylortwocities]

But there must be clear space above all downlights otherwise they will overheat. The required space will be specified by the manufacturer.
If the space is restricted it will cause short lamp life at best.
Medium worst effect is that the luminaire case will distort and discolour.
Worst effect could be fire-related depending on the surface.

Re fire-rated fittings. As you may know, these are designed to slow the passage of fire from the room below through the downlight's hole. These are pointless and not required unless the ceiling is already fire-rated or the ceiling is part of a fire compartment (eg flats etc.)

PS it would be worth your while aquainting yourself with definitions of "low voltage". For AC this is defined as between 50V and 1000V.

Extra Low Voltage is below 50V a.c.

 

[nickas666]

Hi Mikric,

The downlighter cover can not be covered with insulation. On average you need to leave a gap of approx. 60mm all round the cover. Can vary depending on manufacturer.

An interesting device called a loft cone can have insulation layed directly over the top so complying with document L (i think) something to do with energy saving.

I've quoted a response I received from www.stormflame.com when i asked the same question for my downlights in my bedroom.

Hope it helps

 

[Taylortwocities]

This is designed to be covered with insulation
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/TLALC724.html
and (as already posted by disinfo) so is this:
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/JC94020.html

 

[CAMFAG]

The downlights that can be directly insulation covered are Aurora's Sola range, and they are fire-rated too.

Many other manufacturers are following Aurora's lead with their own ones too.

So google "insulation covered downlight".
Good luck. Let's cut down fire risk. Camfag

 

[sparkiemike]

The last time (about 3 years ago) I installed some Click (Scolemore) Compact Flourescent Downlights (CF409) the instructions did allow for the fitting to be covered by insulation without clearance and stated this would not create a fire hazard. (I realise the OP has stated that the fittings in question are not CFLs)

The megaman lamps that came with them were rubbish with long warm uptimes so I would not install them in a domestic environment again.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Answer to Alarm's post below:

Yes - all the ones where a representative has not joined and immediately spammed them.

 

[Alarm]

Does any company mentioned recently not either employ liars and thieves or are one themselves?