Jaguar combi boiler - sorry!!!!

[ScootMP]

The sorry bit is in that I have searched the forum, and found loads and loads of posts that are exactly the same problem... Jaguar combi boiler losing pressure...

We bought our house in Aug 2004, complete with Jaguar combi boiler - the bloke we bought the house off was a heating engineer (apparently) and fitted it all himself...

... we had to remove a couple of radiators due to botch jobs on other things, i.e. electrical wires touching metal floor tiles!!! (Good job he wasn't an electrician!!)

Anyway, for a few months now, the pressure just keeps dropping. We fill it up, but then it drops again - I have read your stickies and it is more than once a month we have to fill it, so obv. there is a problem - other than that, we have the following problems..
1) When we last filled it a couple of weeks ago, we stopped at 1.9 but it carried on and filled itself to 2.9. And now it won't lose pressure (typical) - I bled the towel rail in the bathroom tonight down to 2.0, but it has since risen to 2.9 again.
2) There is a pipe outside the front door under the boiler vent which drips water when the heating is on - I think this is cos the pressure is going over 3.0 - does that sound right?
3) The taps in the bathroom for sink and bath (next to boiler cupboard) only get lukewarm - I have to fill the bath with the shower to get hot enough water - yet the kitchen sink (under boiler) gets very hot
4) I have just checked the filling loop after reading the forum, and there is a valve on the RHS where we fill up, but there looks to be no valve on the LHS - the hex shape is blank where there is a screw bit on the RHS. I have also just noticed that the RHS appears to be leaking (dripping every 20secs) could it be the pressure too high, or more likely the filling valve is not fully shut (I promise we have shut it as far as poss) - shouldn't there be a valve on the LHS so the snakey pipe can be disconnected?

I know I should have gotten it serviced in the summer, unfortunately, we had a baby and so it got overlooked, but the damned thing is driving me crazy, as is not having hot water in the bathroom.

I'm sure you're sick of the same sort of question over and over, but if you wouldn't mind helping out I'd be very grateful (and if you've read this far, you might as well just hit reply!)

Many thanks for any help you can give!

 

[Gasman1015]

You need to disconnect the filling loop braid pipe to check it is actually closed.

 

[ChrisR]

we had a baby and so it got overlooked, but the damned thing is driving me crazy

So is it our fault you have to have a baby?

 

[Agile]

I do have to say that not getting it checked during the summer "because you have a baby" seems a lame excuse.

How about the opposite? We got the boiler checked during the summer because we have a baby".

Clearly you have not properly closed the filling loop valve.

If you cannot manage yourself why dont you get a heating engineer before they shut up shop for Christmas.

Tony

 

[chrishutt]

Read the sticky reference topic. It will answer most of your questions.

 

[ScootMP]

Well, thank you to the person who gave me a reasonable reply that was helpful (Gasman 1015)

As to the other unhelpful replies:
a) I did read the sticky notes (if you read my post properly)
b) You obviously either don't have children, or didn't have much of a hand in their upbringing
c) If you don't want to give people reasonable advice, and not stroppy remarks, then either don't let people register, or just don't read it or reply to it. Simple as....

I think I only made a reasonable question, in a polite and friendly manner, and don't think there was any need for such unreasonable responses - it was just a query as it was gone 11pm on a Friday night, and no heating companies would have been open at the time....

HAPPY CHRISTMAS to Gasman1015 and thank you for one helpful reply.

 

[gasgeezer]

If yhe pressure still rises after you have disconnected filling loop it could be one of two things either exp. vess. failed or needs pumping up or could be blocked exp. tube. The lack of hot water could be faulty diaphram partially blocked secondary heat exch. or flow restrictor not installed. The boiler is under glow-worm domain you could call them as they do a 195pound inclusive callout/repair. B.G wont touch it.

 

[chrishutt]

.... such unreasonable responses

I'm sorry that you thought my reference to the sticky topic "unreasonable" and "unhelpful", since you say you have already read it. Then you appear to have overlooked the following -

Make sure that the valves are properly closed, preferably by disconnecting the filling loop to check that no water is flowing.

It seems you're the one who can't "read properly".

 

[bennettp23]

Heating technician I think you mean Agile.

 

[Polly1]

The sorry bit is in that I have searched the forum, and found loads and loads of posts that are exactly the same problem... Jaguar combi boiler losing pressure...

We bought our house in Aug 2004, complete with Jaguar combi boiler - the bloke we bought the house off was a heating engineer (apparently) and fitted it all himself...

... we had to remove a couple of radiators due to botch jobs on other things, i.e. electrical wires touching metal floor tiles!!! (Good job he wasn't an electrician!!)

Anyway, for a few months now, the pressure just keeps dropping. We fill it up, but then it drops again - I have read your stickies and it is more than once a month we have to fill it, so obv. there is a problem - other than that, we have the following problems..
1) When we last filled it a couple of weeks ago, we stopped at 1.9 but it carried on and filled itself to 2.9. And now it won't lose pressure (typical) - I bled the towel rail in the bathroom tonight down to 2.0, but it has since risen to 2.9 again.
2) There is a pipe outside the front door under the boiler vent which drips water when the heating is on - I think this is cos the pressure is going over 3.0 - does that sound right?
3) The taps in the bathroom for sink and bath (next to boiler cupboard) only get lukewarm - I have to fill the bath with the shower to get hot enough water - yet the kitchen sink (under boiler) gets very hot
4) I have just checked the filling loop after reading the forum, and there is a valve on the RHS where we fill up, but there looks to be no valve on the LHS - the hex shape is blank where there is a screw bit on the RHS. I have also just noticed that the RHS appears to be leaking (dripping every 20secs) could it be the pressure too high, or more likely the filling valve is not fully shut (I promise we have shut it as far as poss) - shouldn't there be a valve on the LHS so the snakey pipe can be disconnected?

I know I should have gotten it serviced in the summer, unfortunately, we had a baby and so it got overlooked, but the damned thing is driving me crazy, as is not having hot water in the bathroom.

I'm sure you're sick of the same sort of question over and over, but if you wouldn't mind helping out I'd be very grateful (and if you've read this far, you might as well just hit reply!)

Many thanks for any help you can give!

Scoot I think I can help you with all of these problems. One of the threads you probably read was mine of a couple of weeks ago asking about my own Jaguar boiler. I managed to sort it all out with more than 50% of the credit to forum posters here.

1/ Your pressure has gone up to 2.9 because your filling loop valve isn't closed properly. Mine had the same problem, even though I turned it off hard with a screwdriver, it was still letting water in. As others have posted, the way to confirm this is by unscrewing by hand one of the filling loop ends & you'll see that water is coming out of the open valve. Have a bucket handy when doing this. I had to change my filling loop valve for a new one to stop this reliably. I didn't HAVE to change it as it was possible for me to turn it off using extreme force, but that isn't the way you want it to work. Changing it is about 10 quid & less than 30 mins work. Only do it if you know how or have a mate who does though as your water will be off if you can't complete the job. I also should say that I only needed to change the LHS valve & I believe it's the same for you.
2/ The pipe is your pressure release valve outlet. Your assumptions are right. You should learn to use this as your pressure release point rather than bleeding radiators. Remove the front panel of the boiler by unscrewing the single screw under the front of the boiler. You can see this screw by moving the instruction plate/flap located under the boiler. Once you remove that single screw, the front of the boiler will lift off & out. You will see a valve half way in towards the right hand side with a red plastic handle. That is your pressure release valve. You can release as much pressure as possible by hand turning this I believe anti clockwise. It should turn with just a little force & click back into place. Water released will go out through the pipe you've noticed. Be careful if the system is hot when you do this as you'll be letting hot water out. Also watch out for knocking wires out of place when you put your hand in there. To do this you may also need to fold down the thick plastic flap containing the readout and controls. This is released by hand at the right hand side of the panel & then folds down very easily.
3/ You need to check your flow rate for your boiler. The kitchen tap is probably restricted & is there fore slowing down the flow & allowing the water to heat very well. I also had to slow my own flow rate to get good heat out of all taps. This is extremely simple, as all you are really doing is turning down the tap that allows water into the boiler. If you have the same model as me, you look under the boiler, the second from the right will be the cold water inlet, regardless of which boiler though it will be the same pipe that the filling loop valve that you open to fill the CH is connected to. If I am correct, the valve you are looking at will be yellow and in the vertical position which is fully open. Turn it clockwise 1/4 to be completely off if you ever need to. But in this case, turning it to about 45 degrees to the right should restrict the flow enough that you still have good pressure from all taps, but that the water also has a chance to warm up enough.
4/ The valve on the RHS of the filling loop is a non-return valve. It opens when you fill the CH and closes when you stop filling. Don't try to adjust it as it might break if you were to force it too hard. You would then have no CH or HW until you get a new one fitted. You don't ever need to operate this valve yourself.

As to your main problem, the constant refilling of your system. You probably have the same problem that I had, your expansion vessel has lost pressure, so all pressure is resulting in water flowing out of the pressure release valve & causing you to need to refill it.

What I did, on the advice of members of this forum, is to release all pressure from my system as described in 2/ above, then I located the expansion vessel by reaching over the top of the boiler under the flue & I could fee a tyre type valve, but not see it. I then took a large bicycle pump & was able to top up the pressure of the expansion valve by pumping air into it. This was no easy feat and I am going to offer a 10 times easier short term solution in a second, it took me many tries to get the bicycle pump to stay on the valve & in the end I had to force it to stay by holding it with one hand while pumping the bike pump against the wall to get the air in.

My other solution (the above is the real solution though, do it if you can) which I realised later on, is simply that the CH system needs a little air in it for the water to be able to expand with the expansion vessel not working properly. So it struck me as easier to let a little air (say a litre or two) into a radiator & that will allow room for expansion & probably prevent the system losing pressure constantly.

I also turned down the temperature that the boiler heats the CH to using the controls on the face of the boiler. Mine was on 65 degrees and I turned it down to 55. So far adding air to the expansion vessel and turning the temp down on the CH control has solved my problem which was identical to yours.

And from now on I am not going to be quite as keen to let every ounce of air out of each radiator, a little air in the system may be a good thing.

Good luck & let me know if I have helped.

 

[chrishutt]

Heating technician

So how are engineer and technician defined in relation to domestic heating systems?

 

[Agile]

As I was apparently included as being unhelpful, even though I pointed out the rather obvious fact the the filling valve must have been left slightly open, and particularly in relation to children.

Anyone who has their own children usually realises that some extra care is required with life in general. That covers dangerous things round the house, child locks on rear car doors and extends to ensuring that cars and heating systems are serviced before long journies or the winter to lessen the chance of any problems of car or boiler failing and exposing vulnerable children to greater risks.

Tony

 

[Paul Barker]

Scoot mp you have to lighten up, the guys are here all the time and reasd into your post stuff you didn't know you had revealed about yourself, and because they are here so much with very boring things to talk about they enjoy ribbing people, buit they are here because they like to give help for free to people like you, so take the jokes lightly and don't alienate the people with the answers by being stroppy. You wouldn't have got hurt if there was no truth in what they say.

 

[bennettp23]

Heating technician

So how are engineer and technician defined in relation to domestic heating systems?

As in the term 'engineer' is abused by people who are really only technicians.

 

[ollski]

Heating technician

So how are engineer and technician defined in relation to domestic heating systems?

As in the term 'engineer' is abused by people who are really only technicians.

An engineer uses scientific and mathematical knowledge to dolve problems and a technician is a person who is an expert in doing certain technical jobs. Therefore as a heating repair man you will have to alter your job title depending on which job you get called to as we cover both......and we don't want to go upsetting these civil engineers by not letting them think they are loftier than us now can we . I went to do a job for one once and upon telling him my rate (30p.h at the time) he replied "I'm not paying that, that's more than even I earn".Hmmm, thanks but I'll let someone else have that one.