Kitchen downlight options

[andyfr]

I know some of you don’t like downlights and we have seriously looked at the alternatives, which were suggested in my previous posts, but we just don’t like the general light they give off, we do however like the cool white light from the MR16 50 watt bulbs with a 45 degree angle beam we have been using in our existing kitchen. So with that in mind what good quality adjustable downlights are available for the new kitchen extension we are in the process of building?

We have looked at the Megeman cool white 11 watt bulbs but they have a much wider beam than 45 degrees. I have seen some Philips 9 watt LEDs which have a better beam angle but they are £30+ for each bulb and we will need an additional 12 for the new extension. It certainly looks like LEDs are the future so we may initially use GU10 halogens until the price of the LEDs come down but how do they compare with the MR16s?

Basically we want to get from MR16s to LEDs using the same fittings and keeping the same light output, colour temperature and beam angle. Any and all helpful and constructive advice gratefully received but please no negative comments about downlights.

 

[electronicsuk]

Keeping the same light output, beam angle, colour temperature etc are not particularly important factors when choosing the fittings, as they are characteristics of the lamp. My main concern would be in choosing fittings that do not have fixed lampholders, as you will find (especially with the Philips LED lamps) that the body is a lot longer than a typical GU10 reflector lamp. This shouldn't be a problem as long as there is the ceiling is not a fire barrier, as this would restrict your choices of fitting somewhat.

In my opinion, 12v MR16 lamps will win over 230v GU10 lamps every time, they are far brighter at any given wattage. However, if you want to switch to CFLs, you'll be better off going with GU10s.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

So with that in mind what good quality adjustable downlights are available for the new kitchen extension we are in the process of building?

Doesn't matter how good the quality is, they will still do a rubbish job, so you might as well buy the cheapest rubbish you can find, as that'll cost you less when the reality dawns and you have to replace them with something which works properly.

We have looked at the Megeman cool white 11 watt bulbs but they have a much wider beam than 45 degrees. I have seen some Philips 9 watt LEDs which have a better beam angle but they are £30+ for each bulb and we will need an additional 12 for the new extension.

Doesn't the fact that if you used halogen lamps you'd need 600W of lighting just in the new extension tell you anything? Is the extension enormous? Or could it be that 2" spotlights are a stupidly useless way to try and light a room?

It certainly looks like LEDs are the future so we may initially use GU10 halogens until the price of the LEDs come down but how do they compare with the MR16s?

GU10 is the type of base, MR16 is the type of envelope. Nearly all GU10 base lamps have MR16 envelopes, most lamps with MR16 envelopes have either GU10 or GU5.3 bases.

Basically we want to get from MR16s to LEDs using the same fittings and keeping the same light output, colour temperature and beam angle.

That won't be possible.

Any and all helpful and constructive advice gratefully received but please no negative comments about downlights.

I'm afraid you don't have the right to tell people here what advice they may or may not give.

 

[andyfr]

I'm afraid you don't have the right to tell people here what advice they may or may not give.

And you don't have the right to tell people what light to fit.

I asked for constructive advice on a particular light fitting which we have thought long and hard about. The fact is we don't like the alternatives you suggested to us in previous posts, the light is awful, far too general.

Most forum members would just ignore a post rather than making the same tired old comments. I'm sure you will come back with some comment or other but the fact is some people like downlights, get over it for goodness sake!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I'm afraid you don't have the right to tell people here what advice they may or may not give.

And you don't have the right to tell people what light to fit.

If you ask for advice on this forum I will give what I consider to be the best advice possible.

If you come here seeking advice associated with a course of action which I consider to be deeply flawed I will tell you that you have made a bad choice.

I asked for constructive advice on a particular light fitting which we have thought long and hard about.

You may have done, but you have reached a deeply flawed conclusion.

The fact is we don't like the alternatives you suggested to us in previous posts, the light is awful, far too general.

Awful? It's light, of a particular colour temperature, end of.

Too general? It's for lighting up a room.

Most forum members would just ignore a post rather than making the same tired old comments.

Like you're ignoring what I wrote, eh?

I'm sure you will come back with some comment or other but the fact is some people like downlights, get over it for goodness sake!

And another fact is that 2" downlights are a useless way to light a room - and that is something that you have to get over.

 

[andyfr]

If you ask for advice on this forum I will give what I consider to be the best advice possible.

If you come here seeking advice associated with a course of action which I consider to be deeply flawed I will tell you that you have made a bad choice.

I appreciated it on my first thread a few weeks ago and we looked seriously into the alternatives you suggested by going to several lighting suppliers (not sheds) and also looking at the kind of fitments in situ in various locations. We came to the conclusion that they weren’t for us.

You may have done, but you have reached a deeply flawed conclusion.

In your not so humble opinion!

Awful? It's light, of a particular colour temperature, end of.

Too general? It's for lighting up a room.

As I’m sure you appreciate there are different ways of lighting a room, and different lighting solutions suit different rooms.
If we just wanted to light a room then a couple of GLS bulbs or a fluorescent tube would do the job. In a kitchen the cool white task lighting is what we prefer. It is going to be split on to different circuits so it’s unlikely they will all be on at the same time.

We wouldn’t have downlights in the lounge as we prefer the more subdued lighting from a couple of dimmed wall lights and a few table lamps.

Like you're ignoring what I wrote, eh?

Yes, when I have explained that your suggestions are not for us!

And another fact is that 2" downlights are a useless way to light a room - and that is something that you have to get over.

We have had adjustable downlights in our existing kitchen for over 10 years, and for us it lights the room exactly as we want so we don’t have anything to get over!

Let’s just agree to differ and shake hands!

 

[Aragorn84]

I cant really see how halogens can be described as "cool white". A fluoro tube maybe fits that description, but i've always found halogens to be harsh yellowey things.

TBH, until reading some of the peoples opinions on here, i hadnt really paid any attention to downlighters. This house we just moved into has them in the kitchen, and initially it seemed fine, i didnt really notice any problems.

I've since looked a bit closer and then you notice that the floors brighter than the worktops, worktops are somewhere in between and have dull and bright sections, and the eye level cupboards have huge sections of shadow over them.

When you consider we're chucking 300w of light at a room thats only 2.5x3.5m give or take, and its not even lit up that well, it becomes even more obvious how awful these things actually are.

 

[andyfr]

IIRC cool white is around 4000K and warm white around 3000K. So the cool white is like the Xenon headlights on cars. This is the colour temperature of our present MR16 bulbs which is what we are trying to achieve using a different fitting and bulb combination, with a view to changing to LED when they are better and cheaper than at present.

The beam angle of the bulbs makes a big difference. If they are 25 degree angle then they are hopeless but we have the wider 45 degree which spreads the light much better. Ours are adjustable so the light can be angled on to the working areas or to bounce off the wall.

 

[Steve]

i like daylight fluorescents - 6000k. Got one on my desk - excellent output for 11w.

andyfr, please ignore ban, he cant help himself sometimes. dont rise to his bait. (sorry ban, but you do get boring sometimes)

and yes, beam angle does make a difference, so choose a lamp without one! Megaman CFLs dont have a beam angle, they are a floodlight! "45 degree spreads the light much better" Better than what? a candle?

 

[Aragorn84]

We've got a blown GU10, so i've ordered a megaman CFL to see what they're like. Bloody expensive at £9.99 delivered though!

 

[andyfr]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Steve, the comment I made about 45 degree spreading the light much better was in comparison to the 25 degree spot. We do actually want to have a beam angle, but more of a flood than a spot which is why we have the 45 degree MR16s.

We do want the same kind of light output/colour/beam as we are getting at the moment so it's looking like we will either have to use halogens until LEDs can replicate it or bite the bullet and buy LEDs now.

 

[Steve]

We've got a blown GU10, so i've ordered a megaman CFL to see what they're like. Bloody expensive at £9.99 delivered though!

ebay!