LABC and Regs

[Geps]

Hi,

I've recently purchased a property and since I have an electrical background (including a degree in electrical engineering) I planned to carry out the rewire myself with my LABC signing it off and testing at various stages.

I should point out here that I don't mean to imply I'm familiar with every single regulation.

I called up my LABC and told them about my intentions. They've informed me that unless I have 17th edition qualifications and experience they will refuse to clear any work.

Reading through the Part P however it states in section 1.24 that the LABC have the duty to test the installation, at their cost, where I am not qualified to complete a BS7671 certificate (which I accept it can be argued I'm not).

Surely the LABC don't have the ability to override this regulation? I know there are others on here who have carried out DIY rewires.

As I'm still at the start of my project the last thing I want to do is pee off BC by throwing regs back at them.

Any thoughts on what next?

Cheers,

 

[ricicle]

I think the cost issue has been changed so you may have to stump up for the testing as well as the notification. Anyone who deems themselves competant can issue an EIC or MWC. The BC will still be checking your results and maybe re-testing though if they feel they need to.
Unfortunately even though the Building Regulations are in black and white, LABCs have their own interpretations of them.

 

[Geps]

I think the cost issue has been changed so you may have to stump up for the testing as well as the notification.

The cost isn't an issue really (up to a point obviously).

Anyone who deems themselves competant can issue an EIC or MWC. The BC will still be checking your results and maybe re-testing though if they feel they need to.

That's where the disagreement is. Before today I thought that was the case but the person I spoke to, who had to put me on hold to confirm with someone else, stated:

"Unless you have 17th edition quals and experience filling in a BS7671 certificate you will have to get an electrician in who can self-certify."

Where they get that from I'm not sure, since like I said, Part P does allow complete novices who don't even know how to hold a screwdriver to rewire, PROVIDED it's done with BC testing and inspecting (which I have no issue with and would want anyway!).

 

[ricicle]

It looks like you would be better off getting a registered electrician to do the work with you doing as much 'donkey' work as possible on his approval.

 

[riveralt]

Work carried out by unregistered electricians

Where work is being carried out by an unregistered electrician on a DIY basis you will need to submit a Part P Building Notice to us. This will incur a charge to cover the cost to send an inspector to site to carry out first-fix and final inspections, and to verify your contractor's test results. Once this is satisfactory a completion certificate will be issued by us

This is an extract from Birmingham City Council Building Control - which seems to indicate you have been given duff advice - you can do the work as an unregistered electrician.

Assuming that is - Birmingham LABC is your area.

 

[Geps]

See even that doesn't fit with the Approved Document.

What I'm talking about here is where it's done on a DIY basis and where you're not qualified to test to BS7671 it says you don't have to test anything as that's what the BC will do for you.

Hmmm looks like it's gonna be a long phone call tomorrow!

 

[riveralt]

See even that doesn't fit with the Approved Document.

What I'm talking about here is where it's done on a DIY basis and where you're not qualified to test to BS7671 it says you don't have to test anything as that's what the BC will do for you.

You will have to help me here, where does it say that in Approved Document Part P?

 

[Geps]

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADP_2006.pdf

I'd copy and paste it but Adobe won't let me for some reason. If you look at sections 1.24 under the heading "Where installers are not qualified to complete BS7671 completion certificates"

Paragraph 1.26 says "BC bodies will carry out the necessary inspection and testing at their expense"

Which to me reads as - the installer isn't required to do any testing since BC will do it themselves. Indeed I can't any mention in that section (1.24-1.27) about the installer carrying out tests on the installation.


EDIT: Typo

 

[riveralt]

Thanks for that I have found it now.

I cannot find it at the moment but I'm sure I read that Local Authorities baulked at this part of the approved document when it first came out, probably because they charged a standard rate determined by central government.

I understand that the central standard rate was removed and that LABC could charge what they like. Some Councils like mine, charge £350 for Part P electrical work and do the inspection and testing part - others charge the old rate around £90/100 but do not do the inspection and testing.
Typical Part P part implementation - not seen too many prosecutions for non compliance either.

I will keep digging.

 

[holmslaw]

..

 

[ban-all-sheds]

How about this:

If you do not feel confident that you could rewire a house in compliance with BS 7671, and do not feel that you could justifiably issue an EIC for it, then you should not be rewiring a house.

 

[Geps]

There is no practical way inspection and testing of a new installation can be done by others. It would involve taking the installation apart bit by bit and then reassembling and retesting. If this process was carried out it would indemnify the original installer against any acccusations, because his installation has been taken apart by the 2nd party inspecters.

Yup that's what I make of the Approved Document. Whether it's prctical or not is another thread I'm just intrigued by what is technically possibly under the document and why the LABC seem to see fit to enforce only a section.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Because THEY are THE COUNCIL.

 

[Geps]

How about this:

If you do not feel confident that you could rewire a house in compliance with BS 7671, and do not feel that you could justifiably issue an EIC for it, then you should not be rewiring a house.

To be fair, I'm fairly confident I could, but some obscure reg could always catch me out, and that's if I had a 17th edition qualification as well!

But to me there is a situation where someone who hasn't a clue with any regs can arise and rewire a house and Part P caters for this. I don't think it's fair that LABC just says "Nope sorry we're not enforcing that part of the regs".

 

[Geps]

Because THEY are THE COUNCIL.

And thus under UK Law, (namely the Building Act 1984) they must act in compliance with the approved document which by refusing to test they're not doing.