Leaking push-fit. Help needed with insurance claim.

[FiscoKing]

Hello,

My father had two new bathrooms installed just short of 12 months ago, and the push-fit that was installed is now leaking through the GF ceiling.

I've done two bathrooms in my own house, but used soldered copper and solvent weld waste pipes to minimise maintenance. My father didn't specify the pipe connectors to use, so the plumber just used push-fit.

The plumber is still around is in dialogue with the insurers, but the question I have today is;

Is it possible to get the insurers to replace *all* the push-fit with olive compression-fit joints while the ceilings are down? What does the 'expert' report have to say to get all the push fit replaced on the insurance claim?

If the remaining fittings leak in another years time, the ceiling will have to come down again (which will be expensive), so the push-fit is going to have to go.

The insurers have sent out an assessor who's report confirms the leak, but stops short of condemning all of the push-fit fittings on the installation. Only those that are leaking will be replaced.

I don't think it's going to be possible to condemn all the push-fit as it's so widely used these days. The bathroom specification should have specified the avoidance of push-fit, but now it's too late.

Any ideas?

 

[big-all]

well yes pay the additional cost off the pushfit replacement
you have answered your own question
the plumbing is up to the required standard so fit for purpose and you know the insurance company arn't interested

 

[curium]

i'm not a pro so this is a question rather than a statement but, is push-fit stuff allowed where it can't be easily accessed? I thought soldered joints would be required in a ceiling void and I certainly insisted on it when I had some pipework done in my ceiling void.

 

[big-all]

ok the answer is push fit is acceptable but not within something like 1 or 2 metres from the boiler apart from that its your choice but i prefer soldered in the same way i prefer jamesons whisky over own label
you makes your choice and pay the money

 

[cantaloup63]

Just how many joints are leaking? I'd be looking at what the plumber might have done "wrong" during the installation

Is the pipework plastic? If so, then are the fittings the same make? Did he use inserts? If his installation is sound and the components themselves failed, I'd be onto the manufacturers since less than 12 months before failure is far from satisfactory.

 

[simond]

Many common leaks are caused by the external skin of the pipe being scratched.

Push fit is easy but no one reads the instructions. If the outside of the pipe is not perfect, an O ring will never make a lasting seal. So misaligned, tensioned connections, scratches and missing inserts are all par for the course.

 

[alan999]

Hi
Push fit is still a relatively new technology compared to traditional fittings so there is no telling how reliable they will be viewed in the coming years.
Can I ask if the insurance claim is via house insurance or he plumber's insurance?

 

[Onetap]

Many common leaks are caused by the external skin of the pipe being scratched.

True, and it's often scratched in shoving it through holes drilled through floor joists. Leaks are usually due to operator error; cutting pipe with a hacksaw is a common cause.

It also should be hydraulically pressure tested after installation, another part of the installation instructions that is usually ignored. The pressure testing method is specified on the manufacturers' web-sites. In the event of a warranty claim, the manufacturers will measure the indentations left in the pipe by the grip ring to confirm that the installation was pressure tested at 10 bar (or whatever they specify). No pressure test = no payout.

That might be the way to ensure there are no leaks. Get the plumber to test it with a Rothenberger test pump (Google for picture), as indeed it should have been tested in the first place.

Anyone suggesting an air test is a clown.

Witness the test and be sure you know what they should be doing. They'd want to isolate the new work from the existing, or the test pressure could cause failures in old joints. Anything that doesn't leak at 10 bar won't start leaking later on.

 

[kirkgas]

Hi
Push fit is still a relatively new technology compared to traditional fittings so there is no telling how reliable they will be viewed in the coming years.
Can I ask if the insurance claim is via house insurance or he plumber's insurance?

i fitted bartol push fit as an apprentice in the early 80's so it isnt that new

 

[alan999]

Fair point kirkgas.
I was thinking more of the different types of pushfit fittings which have sprung up in recent years as opposed to traditional end feed and compression etc. I can imagine that some systems will eventually prove more problematic than others.
I'm not sure how bartol has stood the test of time. I assume it wasnt fitted to plastic pipe but Ive no idea when that first appeared.

 

[Nige F]

Bartol plastic fittings/pipe and Acorn was around in the late 70`s and there was a solvent weld system of small bore - durapipe , too Coincided with the copper shortage

 

[adlplumbing]

oh just so you all no early polyoak
I HATE

 

[nickso]

oh just so you all no early polyoak
I HATE

Me too.

 

[adlplumbing]

before i relised how brittle it got, I taped to remove an air lock

 

[nickso]

before i relised how brittle it got, I taped to remove an air lock

I try not to open cupboard doors too quickly in case the draught snaps a polyoak pipe.

The amount of GA calls i have had for this stuff alone is annoying.