Life expectancy vs the 'virus'

EFLImpudence said:
You really are hard work.

This question:
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Oh that question! No. That was the excess on top of the normal average. It wasn't clear what you were failing to understand.
Absolute rubbish. Is this where you are being mislead?

So, you are saying that without lockdown etc., the UK would have had 7,500 deaths per million.

Why so much worse than anywhere else?
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Nowhere else did nothing, we were at the tail end of action. Most places took action earlier and more effectively.

You seem to think that if we'd done nothing then it would all have been rose petals and booming business. Which is frankly bonkers.
 
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IT Minion said:
1969 was the year of another pandemic. I have no idea what measures were taken.

If people are reaching back 50 years to another pandemic to say Covid-19 isn't that bad then they're doing a lot wrong.
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Nope, just pointing out that a death rate far higher didn't crash the world economy...
(it was 1968 btw)

And funnily enough that virus still kills many around the world to this day, predominantly older people...

As for the measures that were and were not taken?

The pharma corporates hadn't kicked fully into gear back then!
 
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ellal said:
Nope, just pointing out that a death rate far higher didn't crash the world economy...
(it was 1968 btw)

And funnily enough that virus still kills many around the world to this day, predominantly older people...

As for the measures that were and were not taken?

The pharma corporates hadn't kicked fully into gear back then!
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No, the 1968 flu ran rampant in Europe in 1969. There was less travel back then so things moved slower.

The 1968 flu was close enough to previous flus that some level of protection existed.

It also trashed the economy as so many people were off work sick.
 
Wasn't 68, 69 an extremely cold winter?

EDIT: I was thinking of the '62 winter. Before my time.
 
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IT Minion said:
It also trashed the economy as so many people were off work sick.
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Really?

gdp.png


Just in case you didn't notice...

First major drop - ME Oil crisis
Second major drop - thatcher induced recession
Third major drop - thatcher induced recession
Fourth major drop - world induced financial recession

Can't see anything linking 1968 with a financial crisis, in fact the economy was rising :rolleyes:
 
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Apparently that flu was responsible for a spike in Parkinson’s cases in later life.
 
ellal said:
Really?

View attachment 212170

Just in case you didn't notice...

First major drop - ME Oil crisis
Second major drop - thatcher induced recession
Third major drop - thatcher induced recession
Fourth major drop - world induced financial recession

Can't see anything linking 1968 with a financial crisis, in fact the economy was rising :rolleyes:
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Don't spoil IT's confirmation bias ;)
 
The world is somewhat different place from when flu killed millions IN SOME AREAS of the world.

Latest news. Flu jabs down to 50year olds. Really bad idea to get flu and covid at the same time. Seems they ordered twice the usual number of flu jabs. They also keep a stock for one of the worst types of flu to catch but only a small one. They have to hope they can guess which one will end up reaching here as well.

Here's an attempt to show what was going on in early July via a sample.

TreatMent.jpg


That for a pretty small proportion of the population getting infected. No treatment would convert that to most finishing up dead. It's also interesting to compare % of all ages that don't survive or finish up with rather serious side effects when they are released from hospital.
 
Recent news, another anti inflammatory drug Tocilizumab, has been shown to be useful. It's not cheap as chips like Dexamethasone, but it's fairly plentiful and even at a grand a patient it's affordable enough.

Yay science and statistics. :D
 
The cheap drug hasn't been reported that well

Does WHO recommend the use of dexamethasone for COVID-19 patients?
Recommendation 1:
WHO strongly recommends that corticosteroids (i.e. dexamethasone, hydrocortisone or prednisone) be given orally or intravenously for the treatment of patients with severe and critical COVID-19.

Recommendation 2:
WHO advises against the use of corticosteroids in the treatment of patients with non-severe COVID-19, unless the patient is already taking this medication for another condition.

Seems it's of use when patients are on a ventilator. News usually just says treatment.
 
ajohn said:
The cheap drug hasn't been reported that well

Does WHO recommend the use of dexamethasone for COVID-19 patients?
Recommendation 1:
WHO strongly recommends that corticosteroids (i.e. dexamethasone, hydrocortisone or prednisone) be given orally or intravenously for the treatment of patients with severe and critical COVID-19.

Recommendation 2:
WHO advises against the use of corticosteroids in the treatment of patients with non-severe COVID-19, unless the patient is already taking this medication for another condition.

Seems it's of use when patients are on a ventilator. News usually just says treatment.
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Yep, the REMAP-CAP head was saying how the different treatments seem to be best used at different times.

Dexamethasone suppresses the immune system, if you use it too early then it stops your body fighting Covid-19 and any other bugs you might be fighting off, so worse than nothing. On the other hand a lot of people die because the immune system runs out of control, where the dexamethasone saves lives. Doctors have to make the call when and if you go from the first to the second.

Convalescent plasma is believed to be most useful early on. I don't know enough of the details on Tocilizumab but it's probably best around the same time as Dexamethasone as it also works to reduce inflammation, although through a different process.
 
IT Minion said:
Yep, the REMAP-CAP head was saying how the different treatments seem to be best used at different times.

Dexamethasone suppresses the immune system, if you use it too early then it stops your body fighting Covid-19 and any other bugs you might be fighting off, so worse than nothing. On the other hand a lot of people die because the immune system runs out of control, where the dexamethasone saves lives. Doctors have to make the call when and if you go from the first to the second.

Convalescent plasma is believed to be most useful early on. I don't know enough of the details on Tocilizumab but it's probably best around the same time as Dexamethasone as it also works to reduce inflammation, although through a different process.
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It seems I was wrong, tocilizumab is useful for even more patients than I thought. It can reduce the chance of needing oxegen, or of going onto more serious care as well as just saving lives on ICU.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...d-icu-patients-has-wider-benefits-trial-finds
 
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