London Town, Ghost Town

[sodthisforfun]

Yes, I agree, a lot of London is fab and I enjoy going in to see family and the odd gig.
I left London as it's just so expensive day to day and the parts I'd like to live in are afforded by millionaires only If I had that kind of money, I'd not live in London with it, prefer instead a bit of land and space.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

I quite enjoy my occasional visits to the 'smoke'.
I wouldn't live there, but I do enjoy my visits.
It's a very vibrant city with lots to do. You could never be bored in such cities.
Like Paris, Saigon, Hanoi, Bangkok, Manila, but again, I wouldn't want to live there.

I guess living out in the sticks allows me to enjoy the visits to bustling cities.

I used to visit a lot in early/mid 80s, sometimes spending a few weeks at a time. Really enjoyed it, the pubs and nightlife were great and it was still quite civilised. Unless there's a very good reason, I won't be visiting now. Too many other great capitals to visit (eg. Prague) where you can roam anywhere day and night without fear. Of course, before Corona, availability of cheap flights made it viable to visit such places. Better value too, even taking flights into account.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

.

 

[Mottie]

Our daughter lives in Winchmore Hill in North London with her boyfriend and their leasehold 2 bed flat with no outdoor space is valued more than our 3 bed semi in the suburbs. Mind you, I think they’ve got something like a £400k mortgage on it and that would frighten me - £50K was our limit and I thought that was a lot at the time.

 

[johnny2007]

My colleague was left a one bedroom flat by his late father in a tower block in Richmond borough, but nowhere near Richmond.
He retired after the sale...

 

[ReganAndCarter]

Friend a family bought her council semi in a reasonable part of London for a song few years after right to buy was introduced. Mortgage wasn't a great deal more than the rent. When she retired 5 years ago, she sold it for £500K and went to live in Devon, bought a small house and banked the rest.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

I dare say, some of the land on which the house stands is worth more today, than the original price of the house.

 

[Mottie]

I dare say, some of the land on which the house stands is worth more today, than the original price of the house.

When we bought our first house in East London in 1984 we paid £32,500 for it. Average house price in that area at that time was £28,500. One of the attractions was that it came with a workshop and yard attached and I could run my mechanics business from it. It was valued at £81,000 when we moved in 1990. We sold the house and garden for £71,000 and retained the workshop and yard so basically our workshop 'cost' us £10,000 thirty years ago. It currently has planning permission for a 3 bed house with a postage stamp sized rear garden. I had three agents round a year or so ago and they valued the plot with permission at £160,000; £200,000 and £250,000. The agent that valued it at £250,000 reckoned that a house built to a high spec on that plot would sell between £600K and £650k. I doubt if we'd get the higher figure now but still not bad considering the cost and use we’ve had out of it since 1984.

 

[sodthisforfun]

When we bought our first house in East London in 1984 we paid £32,500 for it. Average house price in that area at that time was £28,500. One of the attractions was that it came with a workshop and yard attached and I could run my mechanics business from it. It was valued at £81,000 when we moved in 1990. We sold the house and garden for £71,000 and retained the workshop and yard so basically our workshop 'cost' us £10,000 thirty years ago. It currently has planning permission for a 3 bed house with a postage stamp sized rear garden. I had three agents round a year or so ago and they valued the plot with permission at £160,000; £200,000 and £250,000. The agent that valued it at £250,000 reckoned that a house built to a high spec on that plot would sell between £600K and £650k. I doubt if we'd get the higher figure now but still not bad considering the cost and use we’ve had out of it since 1984.

Why haven't you retired, bought a boat and buggered off to have lots of adventures?!

 

[Mottie]

Why haven't you retired, bought a boat and buggered off to have lots of adventures?!

Seriously considering it although Mrs Mottie says that when I retire, she's going back to work full time! I dunno what she means, I’m great fun to be around 24/7.

Edit, I did have a boat once, a cabin cruiser with a planing hull and a powerful engine that I used to launch onto the Thames from Bargehouse Road in Silvertown and take the kids out on - used to go right up past Tower bridge on it. Mrs Mottie made me get rid of it when the Marchioness went down!

 

[JohnD]

In 1984, average earnings for a full-time male were £179 per week (£9308 p.a.)

So if average house price was then £28,500, that would be just over three years' gross earnings. Readily achieveable with a mortgage and a modest deposit, and wives' earnings would be taken into account.

Today, average earnings is £511 per week (£26,572 p.a.)

Average house price today is £231,855. Just under nine years' earnings. Not achievable on a mortgage even with quite a big deposit. Many young people on zero-hours contracts or agency jobs have not the slightest chance of getting a mortgage.

There are baby-boomers in their sixties who like to say they had it hard, and young people today could afford to buy houses if they spent less on Starbuck's coffee.

It's not true.

meanwhile, young people on low wages are paying the pensions of well-off older people.

it's possible this will not continue for ever.

 

[Mottie]

Today, average earnings is £511 per week (£26,572 p.a.)

Average house price today is £231,855. Just under nine years' earnings. Not achievable on a mortgage even with quite a big deposit.

To get that average I suppose they are taking into account houses that are for sale up north for less than £25k. Are the people that buy them on less than £3K a year then? Of course not. Houses have always cost more where wages are higher. Don’t know what my daughters boyfriends salary is but it’s more than hers and she’s on a pretty average City salary of £55k plus and they are looking at houses around the £650k mark and for that, they’re not getting much! They could move further out from where they work but they don’t want the travelling plus the nightlife (pre-Covid) is what they want at their age. I said they must be mad racking up that sort of debt but they think nothing of it. Oh to be young and carefree!

 

[JohnD]

houses that are for sale up north

just like the average in 1984 did.

Are you casting about for reasons to say that houses are just as affordable now as they were when you were starting out?

it's not true.

 

[Mottie]

No. Owning a house has always been a struggle especially in the earlier years but some would rather not attempt the struggle to enjoy the high life. Times have changed since I was a youngster.

 

[JohnD]

No. Owning a house has always been a struggle

And nine years' earnings is an unachievable struggle. Three years' earnings wasn't.