Low voltage downlighters

[Hairymary]

I have just moved into a house that is riddled with 50w low voltage downlighters everywhere. I must have about 60 of them on the upper floor I cant stand them!

Firstly they cost a fortune to run as there are so many of them. In addition I have just been up in the loft and the electrician who installed them has simply removed the loft insulation well away from the light fittings and individual transformers.

My questions are:

1) Whats the approx luminous efficacy for these lamps and how do they compare with other types of lamps. They seem to get very hot so they can't be that efficient?
2) Can I put back the loft insulation or is this promoting a fire risk?
3) The light fitting and lamp with the ceiling is not air tight. This is obvious to me as when in the loft I can peer down through the small gaps between the lamp and fitting into the floor below, this presemably to allow for plenty of cooling air around the lamp and for lamp expansion etc. However I am not very happy that the integrity of the ceiling is breached allowing warm air to escape into a cold draughty loft space. So much for energy efficiency. Any comments?
3) What is the standard fitting detail for this type of recessed light going up into the loft to take account of my observations above.

 

[Steve]

1. no they aren't that efficient, and only create pools of light. They dont light vast areas. This is why you need so many.

2. No you cant. Make a box around the light using plasterboard or a clay flowerpot, then insulate around this.

3. Normal. So your spotlights themselves are using a stupid amount of energy, AND you have heat escaping from the rooms too. Wonderful.

4. drill a hole, peel back a load of insulation, pop the downlight frame into the hole.

Yes, they look good, but they are a fad. An alternative is to use compact fluorescents in the fittings (these are 5 or 7 watts and dont produce much heat, but are slightly larger. They spread light much better though). Very expensive.

Alternatively, you could use dimmers, but there are issues with dimming halogens. Neither technology is renowned for being compatible, but things are getting better.

 

[securespark]

2. No you cant. Make a box around the light using plasterboard or a clay flowerpot, then insulate around this.

Use the proper kit!!!!!!!!

 

[Steve]

2. No you cant. Make a box around the light using plasterboard or a clay flowerpot, then insulate around this.

Use the proper kit!!!!!!!!

why? its not nessecary to use fire hoods and they are a waste of money unless it is a fire protected ceiling, which is only applicable between dwellings (flats) and garage ceilings! They also dont give the lamp enough ventilation, reducing lamp life. And you cant rely on people ALWAYS using those lamps that reflect heat down.

 

[securespark]

It just smacks of Heath-Robinson...there must be some better kit out there. IMO, if you don't need the hoods, just fit them and clear the insulation around them.

 

[Hairymary]

thanks for your replies.

The fact that:
a) these recessed downlighters do not use efficient lamps,
b)you need to use so many of them to get half decent lighting uniformity, c)you cant properly insulate around them as you produce a fire risk or a best shorten lamp life,
d)you can't properly seal the ceiling around the lamp fitting to stop ventilation losses from the house

means they are all a pile of crap and should be banned!!

Next question..... I want to take the offending items out. This will leave me with loads of holes to plug in the ceiling. Any suggestions about the best way to do this?

 

[nozspark]

I have just rewired my brothers house and as building control were involved in the building work he asked them several questions, one of which was about fire hoods....the upshot of this was that the BC wanted fire/acoustic hoods fitted above any recessed lights that are below any habitable room - and that included bathrooms. His reasoning behind that was that a standard plasterboard ceiling is fire rated for 30mins, but with holes in!!!
I know that most houses have a great gaping hole in them (the stair well), but what the BC says goes as they can make much more trouble for you than you can for them..
This is not localised reasoning, he also had this problem in his old house also which was over 200 miles away. So now I fit lights with built in hoods to downstairs ceilings....

 

[plugwash]

Next question..... I want to take the offending items out. This will leave me with loads of holes to plug in the ceiling. Any suggestions about the best way to do this?

if you have access from above cut a peice of plasterboard larger than the hole and glue it to the top of the ceiling, then fill up the remaining shallow hole from below.

if your working from below then obviously you can't get a peice thats larger than the hole into the space above the hole. instead first glue a long thin peice of plasterboard accross the top of the hole then cut another peice to exactly fill the hole and glue to the first peice.

 

[Hairymary]

that all makes sense and will do the job quite nicely.

thanks !