Mains stop cock out of the dark ages?

[sinc9603]

Hi,
I've just tried to exercise my mains stop cock and of course, ive sheared the head off it...
My question is has anyone seen a stop cock like this before? There is a compression nut above it but nothing below so how do i remoce it? Also, I know it's a shoddy picture but does it have a lead pipe inlet? Thanks

 

[St0rmer66]

Yep, that's lead..

 

[sinc9603]

Oh joy. Just phoned my water board about getting it replaced as I thought they were doing it for free but not the case. So with regards to the tap is there an easy way to get it off with only the one compression joint? Is there any difference as the pipe is lead? Or would it just be easier to cut a new stop tap in above the other?

 

[JohnD]

have you got a water meter?

btw that looks like a service valve to me, not a stop-cock. Was the handle a T-bar, or a wheel head?

 

[sinc9603]

No mate I don't have a meter

 

[JohnD]

that's a pity. They incorporate a stop cock. Is there one under the pavement, or in the front garden next to where the front gate used to be when the house was built? If you look at some neighbouring houses yours will probably be the same. It is very usual for idiots to bury garden stop-cocks, or pave over them.

 

[footprints]

Yea verily thou hast a pipe formed from lead. The luck of Merlin art with the as the bottom connection is soldered to a modicum of copper pipe. If thou cuteth the tap tail piece off and remove any standing water from the pipe and wrappeth the taff joint on the lead in damp rag to protect it. Bid thy dragon to breath heavily on the bottom joint It can be unsoldered, wiped clean of solder and ye olde compression fitting put on.
A pair of pipe grips (see your armourer or smith for these) will remove the bell section giving access to the gland nut and tap body you might just get lucky and remove/refurbish it.

 

[sinc9603]

Yes John are you talking about the external stop cock? Mine (funnily enough as you mentioned it in your reply) is underneath some decking in my back garden, though the previous owners were kind enough to leave a hatch in the decking to get access but I haven't pulled it up to have a good look.

Just saw you added to your comment earlier,
The handle was a t-bar mate.

 

[sinc9603]

Yea verily thou hast a pipe formed from lead. The luck of Merlin art with the as the bottom connection is soldered to a modicum of copper pipe. If thou cuteth the tap tail piece off and remove any standing water from the pipe and wrappeth the taff joint on the lead in damp rag to protect it. Bid thy dragon to breath heavily on the bottom joint It can be unsoldered, wiped clean of solder and ye olde compression fitting put on.
A pair of pipe grips (see your armourer or smith for these) will remove the bell section giving access to the gland nut and tap body you might just get lucky and remove/refurbish it.

took me about five minutes to read and understand! So basically...the bottom of the stop cock is soldered to a length of copper pipe that is fitted into the lead pipe and if I protect the lead so as not to damage and burn it I might be able to get it off?
I may go and see my armourer first and have a go at changing the handle haha

 

[JohnD]

that's great. As you have an external stopcock and can cut off the supply to work, you can if you wish put a new cock above the old one, which will be easiest. You can expect very poor water flow though as the old lead pipe is probably half-inch internal, or even 3/8", and may have been bent or crushed in the ground over the last hundred years or so. if you ever want a combi or an unvented cylinder, you will need to run a new pipe in larger plastic. Hope you enjoy digging.

 

[sinc9603]

John ive already got a combi and the flow seems ok (haven't measured or tested)
So touch wood the pipe isnt bent or crushed... yet!
If I was to fit a new cock above would it cause the flow to decrease at all? If it wasn't soldered at the bottom point to the lead I'd have a go at replacing it but its not something I want to mess with too much. Point of no return springs to mind!

 

[JohnD]

if it was me, I think I might position some new plastic pipe under the floor prior to having tiles, carpet or laminate fitted, with the ends capped until connected. If you ever change it to 25mm (or, better, 32mm) with matching stopcocks, you will be astonished and delighted at the improvement in flow. I am not a plumber and I did this in a previous house when the old lead pipe started leaking in the ground. You could, if you wanted, renew the section between your outdoor stopcock and the indoors first, and then from the outdoor stopcock to the pavement at some later date, for example if/when you get a leak or a meter is fitted. In some districts you can get a Lead Pipe Replacement Subsidy. Ask your water co to test your drinking water for lead content before you start work, and search their website. It is especially worthwhile if you have babies or children in the house. Ask now because they may be very slow.

Every stopcock will reduce flow a bit, but you could fit a modern full-bore service valve on your copper pipe. The Pegler one is very good. You can position it where it will be easy to access (I am guessing it is in a corner of the kitchen) and not hidden away.

 

[sinc9603]

Cheers John you've been a great help mate.
The floor is already laid unfortunately in the kitchen so laying plastic pipe underneath will be a pain right now.
My water Co won't susidise the replacement of the lead pipe and couldn't afford to dog it up right now so at the minute it's a no go on that front. No kids in the house at present but I will get the board to come and do a lead survey.

Is the full bore service valve ok to use as a stop cock?

 

[JohnD]

yes, but you already have a stopcock outside as well. I'm thinking of one of these
http://www.screwfix.com/p/pegler-ball-valve-blue-15mm/11085#product_additional_details_container
but one of the professional plumbers may know a better option.

You can see the advantage of doing your underfloor work early now!

Do you think you could push new pipe between the joists or along the void? The job will only get harder the more work you do. The new pipe does not have to follow the same route as the old.

 

[sinc9603]

I'll have a look into it John but I wasn't planning on doing any big work. To be fair the previous owners didn't tile under the oven so even though it looks like a building site, the rest of the kitchen is fine, the stop tap is hidden behind the oven, which is a pain