Margaret May

[Doppleganger]

In any case my post wasnt about what is correct or not, it was to highlight MT was also a critic of the EU

And my post was to highlight that MT's criticisms were ill-founded.
Her predictions were wrong, therefore her criticisms based on those predictions were ill conceived.

 

[Doppleganger]

Because its been a failure.

Note: Italy, Spain, Greece

I can't dispute opinions. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Any new countries have to join the Euro.

Correction: Any new countries are required to join the euro.
However, there are certain criteria that must be met before they can join the euro.
There are no methods, processes or powers to encourage or force countries to either meet those criteria, or to join the euro.
Similarly there are no penalties enshrined in the treaties for countries that intentionally avoid meeting the criteria, or choose not to join the euro.
Nor are there any processes to eject a member state from the EU.

For there to be any modification to forcing countries to join the euro or ejecting them from EU if they didn't, would require a new treaty, which can be vetoed by any one member.

 

[Notch7]

And my post was to highlight that MT's criticisms were ill-founded.
Her predictions were wrong, therefore her criticisms based on those predictions were ill conceived.

They aren't ill founded. You picked out the ones that didnt come true and ignored the key point that was made: ie ever increasing transfer of power from sovereign state to EU.

Were you unable to absorb the points she made regarding the treaties?

 

[Notch7]

Correction: Any new countries are required to join the euro.

how can it be a correction, what I said is true.

Here ya go, from the European commission itself:

All EU Member States , except Denmark and the United Kingdom, are required to adopt the euro and join the euro area. To do this they must meet certain conditions known as 'convergence criteria'.

Adopting the single currency is a crucial step in a Member State's economy. Its exchange rate is irrevocably fixed and monetary policy is transferred to the hands of the European Central Bank, which conducts it independently for the entire euro area.

 

[Doppleganger]

how can it be a correction, what I said is true.

Here ya go, from the European commission itself:

All EU Member States , except Denmark and the United Kingdom, are required to adopt the euro and join the euro area. To do this they must meet certain conditions known as 'convergence criteria'.

Adopting the single currency is a crucial step in a Member State's economy. Its exchange rate is irrevocably fixed and monetary policy is transferred to the hands of the European Central Bank, which conducts it independently for the entire euro area.

That is exactly what I said "are required to".
I went on to explain how there is no processes to force it to happen, nor any timetable for it to happen, nor any penalties for non-compliance.
Therefore, your "have to" was not totally correct.
If I have to do something, one expects some coercion to ensure it happens, and some kind of time frame for it to happen or penalties if it does not.
If I am required to do something, and I do not, oh well, no sweat. Perhaps one day.
If I am going to build a workshop in the garden, and foundations are required, no-one is going to make me demolish it if I do not build foundations, assuming of course that planning and BR are not required, But even then the chances are that it would not matter. It may not last as long as one built on proper foundations. There may be structural problems, but that would be my fault.

 

[Doppleganger]

They aren't ill founded. You picked out the ones that didnt come true and ignored the key point that was made: ie ever increasing transfer of power from sovereign state to EU.

But clearly some of her more precise predictions were wrong, therefore her criticisms were ill-founded.
Her other 'predictions' were merely opinions, which one cannot dispute.
I could predict the lottery draw and get some numbers correct but it doesn't mean that I am the winner. I might win a free go, or some consolation prize, but I wouldn't have the winning ticket, and my hope, wishes, plans for the future would be dashed.
Anyone who also relied on my predictions would be rather foolish.

 

[transam]

Him again

 

[Notch7]

"have to" was not totally correct

Yes, it is correct.
You are incorrect

there is no difference between 'have to' and 'required to':

There's no difference in meaning, however "required to" is more formal
https://english.stackexchange.com/q...difference-between-be-required-to-and-have-to

 

[Notch7]

But clearly some of her more precise predictions were wrong, therefore her criticisms were ill-founded.

Irrelevant

I provided proof MT was critical of the EU, that was the point of my post.

And you still conveniently ignored her concerns of increasing power.

 

[Doppleganger]

Irrelevant

I provided proof MT was critical of the EU, that was the point of my post.

And you still conveniently ignored her concerns of increasing power.

If her predictions were wrong, then her judgement (on that issue) is questionable, and demonstrates that her judgement was based more on ideology than genuine understanding.

 

[durhamplumber]

It's become apparent recently that notchy has now totally lost the plot...

They do say a picture paints a thousand words

Indeed Ellal,,the pic says an awful lot about you!!!!

 

[Doppleganger]

Yes, it is correct.
You are incorrect

there is no difference between 'have to' and 'required to':

There's no difference in meaning, however "required to" is more formal
https://english.stackexchange.com/q...difference-between-be-required-to-and-have-to

There is no mechanism for the EU to enforce its requirement, nor is there any timetable mentioned for compliance. Therefore, it can be considered as a desirable requirement rather than an absolute requirement.
If it was an absolute requirement, it would not be possible for member states to change their unit of currency and revert to their original currency, without some form of penalty from the EU. Remember there is no mechanism for expulsion from the EU.

Perhaps we can debate the difference between desirable and absolute requirements.

 

[JohnD]

Tell me, Notch:

What currency is used in Sweden?

 

[Notch7]

Tell me, Notch:

What currency is used in Sweden?

Yes interesting point JohnD, it concurs with what I said:

Frankfurter Allgemeine has taken part of documents detailing plans to introduce the euro in all member countries by 2025 – including Sweden.

The leaked "reflection paper" outlines discussions between EU officials who met on Monday to prepare for an upcoming EU-commission meeting on the future of the euro on May 31st, writes SVT.


According to Frankfurter Allgemeine, the officials discussed a target that would force all EU members to join the euro by 2025.

The idea woule be to give the EU-parliament "democratic control" over the euro area's fiscal policy, as opposed to the current setup, where euro area finance ministers make decisions behind closed doors.

But shortly after the leak became public, it was refuted by EU-commissioner Valdis Dombrovskis, who took part in Monday's meeting. He claims the true purpose of the plan is to "complete" euro area cooperation, not to force member countries into the currency.


"Of course we do encourage all member states to join as soon as they meet the prerequisites. But there is no specific time limit," Dombrovskis said, according to news agency Direkt.

Under the current EU treaty, Denmark would have the right to opt out if a "forced" decision were to be taken.

Additional EU-countries without the euro are Czech Republic, Croatia, Poland, Bulgaria, Romania and Hungary.

https://nordic.businessinsider.com/...rk-to-be-forced-into-the-euro-by-2025-2017-5/

 

[JohnD]

... "reflection paper" … discussed … refuted

thank you for posting that long-discredited rumour. Are you Boris Johnson?

As you say, Sweden does not use the Euro.

It has not been fined or expelled from the EU.

It will join when it is ready and the time is right.

Please lend me a hundred pounds. I promise to repay you when I am ready and the time is right. You have no power to enforce payment or to punish me if I do not pay.